Audio Upgrade Options?

[mLuMaN83]

Something MUST be DONE!

Half the dam HK speakers are blown and it sounds pathetic.

I was checking this seller out --->http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-3-Series-E46-Harman-Kardon-Speaker-Upgrade-Complete-12-speaker-Solution-/281160702868?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item41767bdb94&vxp=mtr

Anybody have any opinion on this? Also I was reading something about after doing speakers, putting in some sort of LC6i in-line somewhere made a big difference?

What do you guys think? Speakers need replacing anyways so I might as well upgrade a bit. I love my music and love good sound quality. I dabbled a bit in audio in the past but the OEM system in the E46 is nothing like what I used to do which was easy! Swap head unit, install amp, install sub, possibly other speakers, plug and play, done. Not with this car.

I'm trying to stay as OEM and as plug n play as possible. I don't mind a little wiring here and there as long as things look factory and aren't too extensive to install.

[HockeyGoon]

Bavsound is pretty awesome from what I've heard

[mLuMaN83]

Bavsound is pretty awesome from what I've heard

Ive heard the Stage 1 was a ripoff? Plus they do not include a sub. For all I know, those are shot too! Their kit is $700 right now without sub.

[HockeyGoon]

Ive heard the Stage 1 was a ripoff? Plus they do not include a sub. For all I know, those are shot too! Their kit is $700 right now without sub.

I would not be able to tell you , but that's what I heard is good, their sub takes up a lot of space too

[Avetiso]

Mike, the listing you posted is simply a guy who resells the speaker. You can get much more for that money by piecing it together yourself.

[mLuMaN83]

Mike, the listing you posted is simply a guy who resells the speaker. You can get much more for that money by piecing it together yourself.

I think I had a conversation with this guy years back on BF.com and I said, naw. You think BSW is a better option? I know it's pricy but I just don't have the time to do any customization. I just want to throw in some new speakers and improve the sound quality to have some better bass and some better mid range. My Hyundai Tiburon KILLED this E46. I had the stock amp and the infinity system wired with a new head unit and a 10" sub with a separate amp in the trunk. Thing was incredible. This car sounds so flat and wore out.

[brettbimmer]

I think I had a conversation with this guy years back on BF.com and I said, naw. You think BSW is a better option? I know it's pricy but I just don't have the time to do any customization. I just want to throw in some new speakers and improve the sound quality to have some better bass and some better mid range. My Hyundai Tiburon KILLED this E46. I had the stock amp and the infinity system wired with a new head unit and a 10" sub with a separate amp in the trunk. Thing was incredible. This car sounds so flat and wore out.

You might get in contact with Kyle (Static667) or Charlie (cakM3) for more ideas on stereo upgrades for our ZHPs. I agree that the sound in the standard HK setup in our cars is kinda flat, which seems typical of the E36/46 era from what I have heard. I would like to upgrade too, but it is on the back-burner for the time being for me. Nonetheless, what about one of these if you want more bass but don't wish to lose trunk space? http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091IBUS20/Focal-Integration-IBus-20.html?tp=114&awkw=47838616225&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=19037627425&awdv=c While I have not yet measured it, I believe that it will fit under the passenger seat, and help to add a more balanced, full sound. No, not going to win the sub competition, but not bad given the small space requirements. I have heard one of these installed in a friend's Subie some years ago, and it really did help the lower end. Jury is still out for me on speakers, but check with Kyle/Charlie.

[ELCID86]

Contact danphines here. He posted a while back with some upgrades and was going to post back with economical options as his schedule permitted. I'm hoping he'll be at the reunion and give us the scoop.


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[NorCalZman]

Very interested in hearing about our different options. I think my HK speakers are nearing the end of their life by the distortion I am getting at only moderate volumes. I dont need anything pro level, just want something thats crisp and clear.

[UdubBadger]

My bavauto stage 1 was awesome. Did it in the M too. If you combine it with a Dynavin or Dynavin knockoff it sounds even better as they've tuned the HU to try to compensate for the muddy amplifying job the stock amp does. Everything is PnP. Add an infinity basslink if you want a good punch to the sub frequency, it'll wire straight into the HU.

[ELCID86]

There have to be more economical options.


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[UdubBadger]

Sure you'd think but no.

Other route would be:

Rip out the speakers and amp. Hardwire in a new 4x50-100 amp and better powered speakers like polks or MBQuart in all stock locations and then add in an equalizer or clean sweep or MS-8.

You're looking at about $2200 compared to the $600 for the BSW stage 1 and then maybe a $300 dynavin knockoff (which I hear works pretty well). You can add the basslink for under $200.

[Avetiso]

Shawn, the problem with "economical" options is that piecemealing a system together is a market usually driven by enthusiasts, with prices to match. Think custom computer builds...

I know that seems contradictory to what I said before, but if you are already doing custom work, odds are you will be looking to put in high quality components. $$$

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[NorCalZman]

Is the BSW kit that much better than the ebay kit that the OP posted? Its 100 dollars more and doesnt include the sub

[UdubBadger]

Hard to know as I haven't heard each side by side but the BMW sub frequency blows (no low end) so why keep using?


Goin' HAM mobile

[Vas]

Going custom is the better alternative but you will drop alot of money.

The bavauto might seem expensive but I think it is a good alternative especially when used with a good sub.

[ELCID86]

Contact danphines here. He posted a while back with some upgrades and was going to post back with economical options as his schedule permitted. I'm hoping he'll be at the reunion and give us the scoop.


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Sorry, it's user headmaster.


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[Headmaster]

If you are looking for any substantial gains you'll need to replace the amps and speakers. If you are looking for good punchy midbass you'll have to cut the doors to create a baffle for the front speakers, otherwise you'll need to go with kick panels. Either way you'll want ro junk the factory amps. Replacing the factory speakers alone won't work well unless its a matched system like the bsw. The problem is the weird impedance levels of the factory setup, some are 8 ohm, some 3 ohm, some 4 ohm...good luck getting the crossover points and sensitivity levels to match...I showed tony my system the other day and purposely de-tuned it cause I've got a ton of time and $$ invested, and its a job not for the meek. I was very surprised to see the improvement his eonon made to the factory system. For $400 or so I'd say thats the best upgrade available. The separation was much better although the bass was still a bit weak. A $400 investment in a good amp and sub could fix the lack of bass.
Cris

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[Headmaster]

My picks for gutting everything:
Amps: zapco dc reference are easily integrated into factory and offer good sound quality/$$
I like hertz or HAT (hybrid audio technologies) speakers with hat legatia being my favorite, made in usa.. I'm pretty sure Scott buwalda, the founder of HAT is a bmw guy.
Cris

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[Go Horns!]

If you want plug and play, get the BSW system. But if you are willing to shop around on components and the amp, you can get put together a rocking system for a reasonable amount of money (I'm using reasonable loosely, when it comes to car stereos reasonable is relative).

You can cut costs by not replacing the rear speakers. This saves in two ways. First, you don't buy those speakers. Second, you only need to buy one amp to power the fronts and the sub.

Dynavin clone or processor (if you keep the factory head unit, you'll want the processor) - $300 to $450
Decent components for the front - $100 to $200
Subwoofer and box (depends on what you want to do and how much trunk space you are willing to burn) - $250
amplifier (4x100) - $200
wiring, harnesses, misc. expenses - $50

So you can get the BSW speakers for $700 or you can upgrade the amp, get front speakers, and get a sub for $700. I'm assuming you will do the new headunit or processor in either scenario.

I am running a JVC headunit, 6.5 components in the front (rears are unplugged), and a 10" sub. It is far better sound than the HK system had. I went overboard on what I spent, but if you kept to a budget and did all the work yourself, you should be able to keep the price down. But no matter what, you are looking at dropping at $1,000 to make an upgrade that will be significant. This is the thread with my stereo: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?6324-Stereo-installed-finally

[NorCalZman]

Hmm. Well I have the factory nav system and I am not going to change that. I want something that is as plug and play as possible so maybe the BSW is the best route. I have read they are/were working on an amp but nothing has happened there yet.

I think I also read that the kit has a 4 year warranty. The eBay kit has 30 days.


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[johnrando]

Don't count on the BSW amp, that's been "in the works" for years. I like the BSW due to plug and play, but you can absolutely get more bang for the buck putting together your own. I bought all of my BSW used or on sale so the cost was not as much a factor. If you really want good sound that cranks, I'd go DIY.

[mLuMaN83]

How was the BSW compared to stock, John? I don't need some banging system, I just want i bit more mid, a little deeper bass, and some crisp highs. Does the BSW accomplish this?

If it is an actual noticeable difference then I am going to go that route but some people say it was a very noticeable upgrade and others say it was not so I don't know what the real deal is. It's going to cost me $700 so it needs to be substantial. But still, I need these speakers replaced so I think I might end up doing it anyways. I got another 50,000 miles to get out of this car and I love my tunes! I want to ride this thing through the next 3 years of school and possibly the 2 years it's gonna take for my masters or 200,000 miles. 154 on the clock! Engine and tranny are still tight!

And I have also considered a Dynavin clone replacement but I'm just not sure it's worth it for 50,000 miles. It depends on what the finances/student loans/living situation looks like.

[johnrando]

You will get all those things over stock, but just not in spades. It's an improvement no doubt, just not as big of one as you'd think it should be for that price. PnP DIY was essential for me so that's why I went BSW.

I think I need to add a sub to help things out and the PnP BSW sub for a vert should do the trick as it takes that (vert) into account. I know of 2 people who vouched for it. The thing is, for that much coin you shouldn't need a sub to help (and I'm not talking booming rattling, just deep rich sound).

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[JupiterBMW]

You will get all those things over stock, but just not in spades. It's an improvement no doubt, just not as big of one as you'd think it should be for that price. PnP DIY was essential for me so that's why I went BSW.

I think I need to add a sub to help things out and the PnP BSW sub for a vert should do the trick as it takes that (vert) into account. I know of 2 people who vouched for it. The thing is, for that much coin you shouldn't need a sub to help (and I'm not talking booming rattling, just deep rich sound).

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Next time I'm down in SoCal, we need to meet up. I'm curious to hear your system and see how much improvement there is. I too would like a little upgrade and am ok with spending good money for it, but I want PNP also and ability to keep the stock Nav unit...

[mLuMaN83]

Iv'e decided that I'm going to go ahead with the BSW kit. I need these speakers replaced and this seems to be the best way.

As soon as the finances get settled for Fall 2014 classes, I will go ahead with the purchase and do an honest review of this setup.

[NorCalZman]

Lookin forward to honest review as it sounds like we have similar desires. Nothing pro needed, but decent is required. I really want to get rid of the awfulness of my HKs. Distortion, muddy sound, not sure what to call it.

[ELCID86]

Iv'e decided that I'm going to go ahead with the BSW kit. I need these speakers replaced and this seems to be the best way.

As soon as the finances get settled for Fall 2014 classes, I will go ahead with the purchase and do an honest review of this setup.

In the mean time keep an eye on e46f and EBay as I've seen BSWs for sale periodically.


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[UdubBadger]

I got mine on craigslist for $300, from Seattle. Lol


Goin' HAM mobile

[mLuMaN83]

I know I wish I could find some used somewhere! If anybody comes across anything let me know!

[UdubBadger]

Try allofcraigs.com or adhuntr


Goin' HAM mobile

[ELCID86]

Sub. http://nh.craigslist.org/pts/4397665552.html



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[johnrando]

For sure Joop.

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[mLuMaN83]

Holy moly... Those subs work with the factory system or require aftermarket amp?

IDE pay someone to go get that and ship it to me!

I just texted the guy.

[mLuMaN83]

How are you getting these results? I've tried ad hunter and I'm not getting anything or the above mentioned ad...

[ELCID86]

I use the Craigslist Pro+ app and add multiple cities to the search. Works pretty well.

[UdubBadger]

Smart ^


Goin' HAM mobile

[UdubBadger]

Holy moly... Those subs work with the factory system or require aftermarket amp?

IDE pay someone to go get that and ship it to me!

I just texted the guy.

Doesn't seem like that includes the enclosure, without it I wouldn't bother.


Goin' HAM mobile

[mLuMaN83]

Guy doesn't seem to be responding anyways. Think I'll just stick with the BSW stage 1. Gonna be awhile tho... Gotta wait until the fall semester starts.

[orange260z]

mluman83,

I installed the S1 plus the sub kit in my 'vert last fall. My impressions?

(1) The sub is much better than expected.
I tried a few "box" subs including the highly rated JL preloaded enclosures, but even with the factory sub & armrest removed, I found that very little bass made it out of the trunk. I'm not skilled enough/patient enough to build a custom enclosure for the armrest area, and the only ones I found online were from the UK, would cost $150+ to get to North America, and I'd still need to buy the driver. I then realized how difficult it was to find good, tested free-air subwoofers (ie ones that are designed to operate without a sealed enclosure).

BSW uses an Alumapro Alchemy MX Free Air sub that is designed for this type of application. To get a sub like this one, a similar amp to the one they supply, and the amp wiring kit they provide, you will be up over $500 pretty quickly, IF you can find the driver. So to get the properly fitted enclosure and the complete plug & play package for $700 (or a little less on sale) was a no-brainer.

I'm very impressed with both the quality and quantity of bass the sub delivers. No, this isn't going to impress the kid next to you at the stoplight with the entire back half of his Honda hatchback turned into a giant subwoofer. However, it provides ample quantity that if I'm listening to some bass-heavy hip-hop I can feel the music, even with the top down at highway speeds. The bass is much tighter and punchier than I expected out of a free air system. I listen to a reall mix of music - rock, classical, jazz, country, hip-hop, house - and this sub seems to work well with them all.

(2) the speaker system underwhelms.
I guess I had expectations that replacing the speakers in the e46 would give me a system at least as good as the Logic 7 HK in my e90 sedan. I would say that for some genres of music, I've achieved that... but for others, not so much. I find that the speakers are noticeably louder and fuller than the factory ones, but still struggle to clearly reproduce very "busy" music. For example, they sound awesome playing something like Billy Joel's "Piano Man" or Coolio's "Gangsta's Paradise"; but won't sound very good playing Lady Gaga's "Poker Face" or Kelly Clarkson's "Stronger". Part of it is that they are revealing and as such intolerant of poor recording, but I think that perhaps the factory HK amplifier struggles with the "busy" music and the speakers just reveal that.

My first reaction when I see a price of $700 for the speakers is "WTF!!" But it's important to remember that you are replacing 10 drivers for that $700. To get a decent standard 2-way component speaker system (like in the rear) you will pay $250+; and likely $350+ for a 3-way like in the front of our cars. So again, to pay an extra $100 for a solution that is plug & play, and works with the screwy existing amplifier and crossover ended up also being almost a no-brainer. You can definitely do better, but you will likely spend more on the speakers, and spend a lot more on amplifiers, crossovers, and custom installation.

I think that the mystery amplifier, if it ever actually arrives, could turn this speaker system from "nice" into the "WOW" that it deserves to be. I really think that the amp/crossover is the limiting factor here.

Overall, I am a pretty happy BSW customer. Jason and his colleagues were very good to deal with too - they were very patient in answering questions, and you could tell that Jason is very passionate about what he does. We did run into a problem (one component went out of stock between the time Jason took the order and when the order was processed) but Jason kept me in the loop on the backorder and took care of the extra rush shipping when it finally did arrive.

It's definitely a pile of money to lay out at once, but when you really price alternatives I don't think that BSW is the extravagant choice some believe it to be.

Please share your thoughts after you get this!

cheers!

[ELCID86]

Nice review Orange. Thanks.

[static667]

Hey Mike! Don't pull the trigger on the BSW stuff just yet. I know I'm a little ways away in Tampa, but I'm more than willing to help you with your stereo. Ask Charlie....he'll tell you. We can go with the Rockford Fosgate 6" component sets. They range from $60 to $200 per set. The $60 set (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_61204_Rockford-Fosgate-R16-S.html) will do the job well, retrofit rather easily, and sound 100 times better than the stock ones. Get up with me and we can work something out.

[mLuMaN83]

Thanks, Orange. Good writeup.

On a side note, I found a FREE audio upgrade for anyone with an iPhone connected to their car. If you haven't seen it already, it's in the main audio thread.