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Fenrir
10-15-2014, 07:05 PM
Mmmmmk, so I decided not to include a video with this review and I apologize in advance. Primarily because with all the editing I could do and careful attempt at presenting I couldn't quite get everything as I felt it needed to be.... My video camera's suck frankly and it's desperately time to upgrade. So after I get some better equipment a few proper cameras, I'll actually give you guys some decent footage. With that said, here's the review:



The Quaife Helical LSD. Before I can answer all the sideways going, rear end slapping, whiskey throttling questions, I have to answer some technical stuff.

Firstly, who the heck is Quaife and what the heck is a helical (hē-li-kəl) LSD?

Quaife Engineering: Quaife is a British company formed in 1965 and specializes in performance drivetrain products. These guys have designed and manufactured parts for everything from motorbikes to GT and Rally cars and briefly their own full road car . So they know their way around a rear end.. of a car :shift

What is a helical LSD: To make a very long and slightly complicated explanation a short and still kinda complicated one, a helical LSD is just that. An LSD. The difference between this LSD and other LSD's, we'll say clutch type for this example, is that it's not always limiting wheel slip. A helical design only acts as an LSD when torque is being applied. So when coasting off throttle, the rear essentially becomes an open diff. Same for in a corner, coast and you now have an open diff. Why? Because without torque being applied the helical system has nothing to split so it kinda hangs out till it's time to work. However, once you apply the power, this thing will work overtime to make sure you've got a grin on your face.

What's it like for daily driving: It's very quiet and almost antisocial. Unless you make a habit of screaming around every bend to work and stomping it from every light you won't notice it very much. But before you stop reading and go back to deciding which winter setup to get, hear me out.

It was pouring like crazy a week or so ago and I decided to maintain speed while turning left through a green light. In a town where it rains three weeks out of the year ,at best, road grime and nil traction go hand in hand here when things get wet. So I totally drifted the crap out of that turn #LSD yo.... Mmmmm noo. I braked appropriately and kept going. Nothing happened. Not a thing.. The DSC light didn't even come on. Unlike other LSD's I've had in the past which ALWAYS want both wheels spinning equally, this LSD works only when and how it needs to. It doesn't fight your DSC system, it compliments it. So it's working even when you don't realize it and may never even notice it. And that's a good thing.

What about performance....*drifting*: Okay let's get this out of the way. If you want to drift every curve deeper than a Japanese anime teenager.. You want a different rear diff or just a different car. Most of your track day drift toys use a clutch diff.

Clutch diffs come in locked ratios and will always output at that ratio. Meaning they can swing the rear end out and keep it there. As I explained earlier, a helical diff does only what it needs to as much as it needs to. Meaning if you turn off your DSC and attempt to forcefully swing the back end out it will. But the diff will constantly modulate depending on the power you apply to it vs simply forcing a gated ratio to both wheels.

During a prolonged drift, the helical diff would send more and more power to the outside wheel until the inside becomes fully loaded and the outside spins freely. It would then act like an open diff. So if drifting is your hopeful lot in life with the E46, just swing for the locked diff. I'm not saying that the helical can't drift. But it's not what it is designed for.

For road course or Auto X you'd be hard pressed to fault it. The very design that makes it a lesser choice for drifting makes it the perfect choice for road course. A helical setup tends to be very neutral on both turn in and mid corner vs a locked set up and extremely grippy and predictable.

Okay but I don't drift: Weeeelll then, WELCOME!!... To your new rear end. Where this diff really shines is at your car's limit. Never before have I been able to push a car so much at it's limit and have it telegraph that limit to me so well without having to strap into a five point harness and knock the dust off my nomex and helmet. The disadvantage to a proper race car diff, read clutch, is that if you are inexperienced and you unknowingly push a car to it's limit, it'll make you meet your back end faster than you can blink. This diff is a different animal.

When I take the car to the limit with the DSC off I can feel it working. It allows you to correct your line and steer with the throttle while assuring you that it will let you know loooong before you step out of line. The speed at which I can enter a turn and carry though it is surprising. You can feel the power going where it's supposed to and know that it's not simply being wasted. On a road course, full track, or Auto X course the rear end feels sorted and capable. You can left foot brake and keep the power going with the car ready to blast out of the corner exit. When you come into a wide corner a little too hot and start to go wide, modulate the throttle a bit and the car works with you to step back in line instead of choking out one wheel while wildly spinning the other.

On a back road such as a mountain pass or anywhere things get twisty, the ZHP suddenly just makes sense. So it doesn't have a barely legal race engine and the stock gearing seems kinda long for some people. Drop it in third and imagine you're at Monaco or the Ring and rest assured that the car's rear end is actually using the power being sent to it. Sweepers and switchbacks suddenly become areas where you learn to get on the power a bit sooner and clip the apex a bit tighter.

I am in NO WAY advising you attempt to set a new time at your local twisty bit of road. But we all have our favorite roads where the speed limit allows us to have a bit of fun in the corners. And an LSD just adds to the experience.

Maintenance: Umm.. None.. Install it, use whatever fluids BMW or your specific manufacturer specifies, aaaaaand forget about it.

Reliability: This diff is one of the first things the previous owner had installed after he bought this car in Germany. A lil under 9 years and 90k miles later and it is still holding up with zero issues. It gets beaten at weekend track days and coddled to work on Mondays with nary an issue.

Quaife Customer Service: Having purchased the car with this diff installed I have no purchasing experience with them. However, their reviews are overall very good.

Summary: If you're making your ZHP a hardcore track day / weekend race toy go buy a proper clutch differential with a proper ratio to match your needs. If you just want to tighten up that back end for your daily driving and on your weekend track days or on the way home from work, I highly recommend the Helical setup. It won't break your wife's neck when it engages and won't try to kill you when you reach the limit. And at the same time, it compliments and enhances your daily drive. The car feels sorted and confident in it's actions and the same feelings flow to you as the driver as well.

If you have any doubts then PLEASE take your time, do some research and decide what it best for you. But with a few power mods and some time to learn the car, these things can be scary good fun ;).

Thanks for reading and have a good one guys.

*all vs examples for this review were for clutch type vs helical LSD. Torsen is roughly the same as a helical so the idea pretty much carries over. If for some reason you're unlucky enough to have a viscous LSD...well... I forgive you.*

Link to Quaife site. I am in NO WAY affiliated or sponsored by them..: http://www.quaifeamerica.com/whatever-homepage.html

*updated info*
On the US site there is a FAQ where they address that issue and their statement is as follows:


"I don't see an application listed for my vehicle, what can I do?

[I]Whether you are looking for an ATB Differential, close ratio gearkit, quick steering rack, or all of the above, we specialise in making limited productions on a custom basis. With many differential production runs of only 30 units, and gearkit productions of as few as 10 kits, Quaife can provide small companies and race teams with custom made driveline products built to their own, unique requirements. If you are an individual looking for one part, the first thing to do is to contact us! You may not be the only one looking. Many new applications have begun with a single phone call. After that, it would be a good idea to seek out fellow enthusiast owners that share an interest in your same vehicle. You may be able to gather enough people together to get a small production started.
Give us a call, you got nothing to lose . . . and performance to gain!"
:end quote.

Now on their UK site they still sell the E46 specific diff as well as offer a link to an endorsed BMW performance garage in the UK :).

Quaife UK link: http://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-bmw-limited-slip-diff-kit-for-3-series-e46-330i-manual

Birds BMW performance: http://www.birdsauto.com/product-information/quaife-atb-bmw-limited-slip-differential-conversions-0

OtterEffect
10-15-2014, 08:19 PM
Phenomenal review man! Thanks for taking the time. Definitely sounds like a great option, especially with the recent OS Giken horror stories!


Sent from my potato using Tapatalk

NorCalZman
10-15-2014, 09:49 PM
Interesting review. I wonder what would be involved in installing this thing.

When looking at your link, they only seem to have one diff for bmw mini and it's for a cooper S. They stop making them for our cars?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Fenrir
10-15-2014, 10:34 PM
Phenomenal review man! Thanks for taking the time. Definitely sounds like a great option, especially with the recent OS Giken horror stories!


Sent from my potato using Tapatalk

Thanks :). I enjoy the diff a lot lol. I wish I could have given a bit more technical info in the review but as I'm still learning all of this myself it's a bit tough to put on paper..um..keyboard.. It's kinda like your first day in Chemistry class and while you know you're teacher made something cool and bombarded you with info, the only thing you can manage to tell your folks when you get home is "Stuff exploded and it was so cool!!" But I've got a ton of info on diffs and I'm using it to expand my knowledge as I go :).




Interesting review. I wonder what would be involved in installing this thing.

When looking at your link, they only seem to have one diff for bmw mini and it's for a cooper S. They stop making them for our cars?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

As far as the install I am pretty much useless on that sadly :(.


Hooooowever I can answer you other question :).

On the US site there is a FAQ where they address that issue and their statement is as follows:


"I don't see an application listed for my vehicle, what can I do?

Whether you are looking for an ATB Differential, close ratio gearkit, quick steering rack, or all of the above, we specialise in making limited productions on a custom basis. With many differential production runs of only 30 units, and gearkit productions of as few as 10 kits, Quaife can provide small companies and race teams with custom made driveline products built to their own, unique requirements. If you are an individual looking for one part, the first thing to do is to contact us! You may not be the only one looking. Many new applications have begun with a single phone call. After that, it would be a good idea to seek out fellow enthusiast owners that share an interest in your same vehicle. You may be able to gather enough people together to get a small production started.
Give us a call, you got nothing to lose . . . and performance to gain!"
:end quote.

Now on their UK site they still sell the E46 specific diff as well as offer a link to an endorsed BMW performance garage in the UK :).

Quaife UK link: http://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-bmw-limited-slip-diff-kit-for-3-series-e46-330i-manual

Birds BMW performance: http://www.birdsauto.com/product-information/quaife-atb-bmw-limited-slip-differential-conversions-0

I'll contact Quaife tomorrow and see if they would be interested offering the LSD to the US customer base again or if small orders of the diffs can be done. Also I'll be updating the review with this info. I should have added it earlier lol.

slater
10-16-2014, 05:01 AM
great review - thanks for taking your time to be thorough. i was on the fence about quaife vs clutch-type - not on the fence anymore. :) now, to save the funds... (speaking of which, the quaife can be had from diffsonline.com).

peter

Avetiso
10-16-2014, 06:54 AM
So, hypothetically, let's say I wanna do donuts in the parking lot.

Would it do it? (hypothetically)

az3579
10-16-2014, 07:17 AM
So, hypothetically, let's say I wanna do donuts in the parking lot.

Would it do it? (hypothetically)

If it's private property, then yes, only with the property owner's permission of course.
Otherwise, not a good idea.

Vas
10-16-2014, 07:18 AM
So, hypothetically, let's say I wanna do donuts in the parking lot.

Would it do it? (hypothetically)

You need a mullet and a muscle car for that.

NorCalZman
10-16-2014, 07:56 AM
great review - thanks for taking your time to be thorough. i was on the fence about quaife vs clutch-type - not on the fence anymore. :) now, to save the funds... (speaking of which, the quaife can be had from diffsonline.com).

peter


Wow. Its over $3000 on their website. Expensive upgrade. The OP is lucky his car came with this.

slater
10-16-2014, 08:22 AM
Wow. Its over $3000 on their website. Expensive upgrade. The OP is lucky his car came with this.

yeah, it is expensive - $2700 when you subtract the core charge. the 2-clutch is $1900, and i notice on their website that they now have a 'diffsonline helical' which sits in the middle at $2300. hmmm.

peter

Fenrir
10-16-2014, 10:16 AM
So, hypothetically, let's say I wanna do donuts in the parking lot.

Would it do it? (hypothetically)
Lol it most certainly would. Before I put the new tires on I pretty much shredded the old ones on a pad learning how deep it would drift and how well it does donuts.... Very well I found out lol. But once again balance is everything. Overload one wheel too much and it'll try to snap you back in line ;).

Wow. Its over $3000 on their website. Expensive upgrade. The OP is lucky his car came with this.
I was blessed in many ways with this car when I bought it. The previous and only other owner babied it and it was his garage toy. Then he had another kid and had to get rid of it. But he's getting an M5 now lol.

yeah, it is expensive - $2700 when you subtract the core charge. the 2-clutch is $1900, and i notice on their website that they now have a 'diffsonline helical' which sits in the middle at $2300. hmmm.

peter
Like I said, do your research ;). I am all for finding an alternative to direct other members to as the price on this diff is a hefty one. I will say the PO and I have put this thing through it's paces and it still does it's job with no complaints.

Other members with other diff's and experience please feel free to chime in and give your opinions. A review is nothing without good comparisons and alternatives brought by the readers.

NoVAphotog
10-17-2014, 06:43 AM
Ben,

Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent review! From it I've learned that I do not like the sound of the Helical LSD...I think I would prefer the standard clutch pack setup. I like the static lock and the price comparison is definitely a kicker.

johnrando
10-17-2014, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the detailed review.

Fenrir
10-17-2014, 09:30 AM
Ben,

Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent review! From it I've learned that I do not like the sound of the Helical LSD...I think I would prefer the standard clutch pack setup. I like the static lock and the price comparison is definitely a kicker.

You're very welcome and thanks for taking the time to read it :D. I'm happy you could use it to help make a decision on your diff selection. And I agree, for pure performance and price, the clutch is superior all around and makes for a great addition :). When I first looked up the prices for the Quaife diffs I had to rub my eyes a few times to make sure I was seeing what my brain told me I was lol. Either way, I'm extremely happy that you were able to glean from this to help with your decision :).


Thanks for the detailed review.

Very welcome and thanks for reading ^_^!!

slater
10-17-2014, 09:38 AM
Ben,

Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent review! From it I've learned that I do not like the sound of the Helical LSD...I think I would prefer the standard clutch pack setup. I like the static lock and the price comparison is definitely a kicker.

yeah, the price is a big one. but the fact that the helical acts like an open diff on decel is important to me - it will make corner entry a lot more neutral (like a stock car). it's my understanding that a clutch-type LSD will actually try to prohibit the car from turning.



You're very welcome and thanks for taking the time to read it :D. I'm happy you could use it to help make a decision on your diff selection. And I agree, for pure performance and price, the clutch is superior all around and makes for a great addition :). When I first looked up the prices for the Quaife diffs I had to rub my eyes a few times to make sure I was seeing what my brain told me I was lol. Either way, I'm extremely happy that you were able to glean from this to help with your decision :).

i guess the question is - if you had to buy one, which would you get? :)

peter

NoVAphotog
10-17-2014, 09:58 AM
yeah, the price is a big one. but the fact that the helical acts like an open diff on decel is important to me - it will make corner entry a lot more neutral (like a stock car). it's my understanding that a clutch-type LSD will actually try to prohibit the car from turning.


Hmm...I don't know enough about them to answer that. I think it comes down to the ramp angle on decel and being able to adjust that is big money on the clutch type side of things.

@cakM3, you have a 3.46 2(?) or 3(?) clutch-type 45/45 ramp angle Limited Slip Differential from Diffsonline in your ZHP correct?

Fenrir
10-17-2014, 10:12 AM
i guess the question is - if you had to buy one, which would you get? :)

peter

THAT is a good question lol. When I was building 3000gt's we went with a Quaife setup because of the reliability over time and the ability to put disturbing amounts of HP through it without worrying. However we also had a dealer who would get us reeeeally good prices on the Quaife diffs lol. So I have some experience with the product there as well, just not directly with Quaife as a company.

That said, I like the pricing on the clutch diffs and the pure car control they offer. My Mustang had a clutch diff and I loved it. The control I had was pure bliss.

So.... Hmm... Price now vs long run and maintenance considered? I'd probably go Quaife / Helical again. I like the reliability and I'm very much a "Fire and forget" person when it comes to my cars. Meaning I'll tend to take a part I don't have to replace for a long period of time and lose some performance over something I may have to rebuild / replace in a shorter time in comparison. That and I just downright like the way the Helical feels lol. Left foot braking solves most of the open diff instances you'd get and I don't get to the track very often, so for my purposes, the Quaife suits me.

slater
10-17-2014, 11:42 AM
THAT is a good question lol. When I was building 3000gt's we went with a Quaife setup because of the reliability over time and the ability to put disturbing amounts of HP through it without worrying. However we also had a dealer who would get us reeeeally good prices on the Quaife diffs lol. So I have some experience with the product there as well, just not directly with Quaife as a company.

That said, I like the pricing on the clutch diffs and the pure car control they offer. My Mustang had a clutch diff and I loved it. The control I had was pure bliss.

So.... Hmm... Price now vs long run and maintenance considered? I'd probably go Quaife / Helical again. I like the reliability and I'm very much a "Fire and forget" person when it comes to my cars. Meaning I'll tend to take a part I don't have to replace for a long period of time and lose some performance over something I may have to rebuild / replace in a shorter time in comparison. That and I just downright like the way the Helical feels lol. Left foot braking solves most of the open diff instances you'd get and I don't get to the track very often, so for my purposes, the Quaife suits me.

makes good sense. the 'fit and forget' thing is a wonderful thing. i likely will go quaife for that reason as well, and your 90K mile testimony helps that for sure.

peter

LivesNearCostco
10-17-2014, 11:42 AM
I happen to be visiting Japan for the first time and while I've seen hordes of teenagers and young adults on the streets and trains (most buried in either conversation with friends or in their cell phone screens), I haven't seen any Fast and Furuious drifting action. I must be hanging out in the wrong parts of Tokyo, or at the wrong times.

I do want to learn to drift and believe my new/old E36 M3 has a 2-disc clutch LSD. another E36 autoxer I've met told me it's not hard to upgrade them to a 3-clutch, so maybe they will show me how. But first I have to get it to the track and see what it can do.

But thanks for a very nice review!



What about performance....*drifting*: Okay let's get this out of the way. If you want to drift every curve deeper than a Japanese anime teenager.. You want a different rear diff or just a different car. Better yet do it right and get yourself in to a rally school. Most of your track day drift toys use a clutch diff.

Fenrir
10-17-2014, 12:23 PM
I happen to be visiting Japan for the first time and while I've seen hordes of teenagers and young adults on the streets and trains (most buried in either conversation with friends or in their cell phone screens), I haven't seen any Fast and Furuious drifting action. I must be hanging out in the wrong parts of Tokyo, or at the wrong times.

I do want to learn to drift and believe my new/old E36 M3 has a 2-disc clutch LSD. another E36 autoxer I've met told me it's not hard to upgrade them to a 3-clutch, so maybe they will show me how. But first I have to get it to the track and see what it can do.

But thanks for a very nice review!

My better half to be happens to originally be from Tokyo and I was actually talking with her on the subject of racing over there. Street racing has become less and less popular over there after reaching it's peak in the late 80's and early 90's. You still have your various bits of it left but with almost all of the old guard like the Mid Night Racing Club gone, there isn't as much of an accessible street scene as there used to be. Most of it is at track days now. That... And the FnF series kinda went from almost realistic to straight up street racer's wet dream fiction after the first movie lol. Still fun to watch though.

The sheer cost of maintaining and paying the taxes on an older performance car in Japan , or any car for that matter, is turning much of the younger crowd away. There are still races from what I hear but they even have speed cams in the toge now and the wangan is hardly the speed playground it used to be. In a country where it's small enough for many roads to be regulated electronically and watched and where the cost of simply owning a car is increasing, time has simply caught up to the petrol crowd. Kinda sad really.

And I'm glad you enjoyed the review :). Godspeed on your ///M endeavor ;)

LivesNearCostco
10-17-2014, 01:27 PM
One of our local guys drove me to some meetings in an E9x BMW 320i and he was commenting that car engines are bigger in the US. When he goes to the US and rents a Toyota, he said it's much more powerful than the same Toyota model here, like it will be a 2.0L engine in Japan but a 2.5 or 2.8L engine in the US with a 3.0/3.2L V6 option.

Then yesterday I got to ride the semi-local bullet train (which doesn't go as fast as the long-distance express bullet trains) and it went really, really fast, something like 180 or 200 km/h. The rails are super smooth so you see the speed but don't feel it except when you're in a station and see an express train go by without stopping.

Driving around I saw one guy driving with an old Aston Martin, but almost everything else on the street is Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, with a bunch of trucks and buses and a sprinkling of BMWs and VWs. Haven't seen any muscle cars. Haven't done any driving myself in Asia--last time I drove in a foreign country was many years ago in Germany (or a few years ago in British Columbia, Canada, which doesn't feel very foreign at all).

Taipei had armies and armies of scooters; Tokyo has more bicycle riders than scooters.

Fenrir
10-17-2014, 01:32 PM
If I remember correctly the cars over there are taxed by Liter. The difference in the tax rates between a 2.0 liter engine and a 3.0 liter for the same car can be scary. Which is why many of the sports cars that come from Japan are extremely efficient when it comes to HP per liter. Ford used to shove a 4.0 liter v6 in the mustangs that made a huge whopping...210 hp -_-.... Meanwhile you could pick up an S2000 that makes 240+ hp from a lil N/A 2.0 liter 4 cyl..

Is it bad I'd give my left arm for a Suzuki Cappuccino?

az3579
10-18-2014, 06:24 AM
Is it bad I'd give my left arm for a Suzuki Cappuccino?

Seriously?? :shifty

I wouldn't be able to fit my foot into one of those...

http://www.simonreed.me/GT5/images/49.jpg

Fenrir
10-18-2014, 06:25 AM
Seriously?? :shifty

I wouldn't be able to fit my foot into one of those...

http://www.simonreed.me/GT5/images/49.jpg
I'm 5ft 7in so it'd be perfect for me lol.

Sent from a blue police box

NoVAphotog
04-29-2015, 07:23 AM
Ben,

Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent review! From it I've learned that I do not like the sound of the Helical LSD...I think I would prefer the standard clutch pack setup. I like the static lock and the price comparison is definitely a kicker.

Looks like times have changed... ;)

after reading Ben's review again, along with other insight, a Helical LSD seems to be the best fit for a primarily street driven car. Looking forward to making my own review with Ben's as a model! :thumbsup

slater
04-29-2015, 08:06 AM
Looks like times have changed... ;)

after reading Ben's review again, along with other insight, a Helical LSD seems to be the best fit for a primarily street driven car. Looking forward to making my own review with Ben's as a model! :thumbsup

agreed, daniel... the helical seems to be the perfect fit for my needs/wants as well. i think part of it was the fact that it does not restrict the car from turning like some clutch-based setups do.

peter

Fenrir
04-29-2015, 10:08 AM
Glad it could help guys :). I've actually been meaning to redo this as a video review eventually with a lot more information on the helical setup vs other diffs and some tail out antics perhaps ;).

NoVAphotog
04-29-2015, 10:10 AM
Glad it could help guys :). I've actually been meaning to redo this as a video review eventually with a lot more information on the helical setup vs other diffs and some tail out antics perhaps ;).

Yes!!

Looking forward to it Ben!

NoVAphotog
06-22-2015, 06:31 AM
Glad it could help guys :). I've actually been meaning to redo this as a video review eventually with a lot more information on the helical setup vs other diffs and some tail out antics perhaps ;).

Given that this seems to be the "summer of love and LSD" Ben, any chance you have some free time to bump your Quaife Helical LSD Review with some of the above?

In my review of the MFactory Helical LSD I'll definitely be linking to yours of the Quaife as it is one of the main competitors.

Fenrir
06-22-2015, 07:08 AM
Given that this seems to be the "summer of love and LSD" Ben, any chance you have some free time to bump your Quaife Helical LSD Review with some of the above?

In my review of the MFactory Helical LSD I'll definitely be linking to yours of the Quaife as it is one of the main competitors.
Work has kept me insanely busy lately. However the plan is still in action to make an update to the review.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

Fenrir
06-23-2018, 01:06 PM
Longest update bump on this section of the forum ever. I think. Maybe.

So life, being what it is, has gotten in the way a few times. That said, a ZHP / Quaife Diff video is now in the works. It may be a few months but it is happening. It only took a few years. The military kept me ridiculously busy while I was in but now I sleep soundly under my DD-214 blanket. I've only thought about joining back up once... Or twice...... Anyways, once the video is done, it'll be posted here. An update review will be posted as well. My recent (read past year or so) activity has been fairly sporadic on here at best and I fully intend to get back to contributing. For those of you who were waiting, thanks for the patience. For those of you who totally forgot, myself included:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180623/e24f3216d83312bc778d65e0af8f2207.jpg

JPMo
06-23-2018, 09:13 PM
Patiently waiting