Trade for Manual ZHP or Swap?

[L0veZHP]

I was just wondering, you know just popped into my head!

My ZHP is Imola Red and runs perfect! I follow this maintenance procedure
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=595553

It has 85,7xx miles on it and its showroom shine clean! (expect rims they are a bit scratched up and rock chips near grill.)

So I love my car and its color! but I want a manual badly! How much would you think a swap would cost or do you guys know anyone willing to trade for another ZHP? I can bend a bit for the color.. but I feel it has to be a fair trade.. because I love my car so much.. and I know its reliable. I'm willing to pay a bit more or getting paid instead. And I really don't think a swap would be worth it but I'm just wondering.

[danewilson77]

I thought there was a guy on here...wanting to trade for an auto?

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[L0veZHP]

there was but he has a black ZHP i dont really like black on a ZHP

[danewilson77]

there was but he has a black ZHP i dont really like black on a ZHP

Oh...so now you want to go gettin all picky about it....hehe.

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[L0veZHP]

Oh...so now you want to go gettin all picky about it....hehe.

Droid! Srs Legitness!

:shifty maybe..

[L0veZHP]

any idea how much a swap would cost?

[mimalmo]

I would start looking on Craigslist and your local auto recyclers for a 330i six speed that's being parted out.

I'm not sure of all the parts you need though. Some research will probably get you a list of needed parts.

[Stu]

Swapping is a pretty good amount of work. Once you actually get everything in, you gotta recode the ECU and DSC modules. It certainly is a project and it can be done for sure, but how cost-effective it is vs. buying another ZHP is debatable.

[az3579]

I would trade. Swaps on such new cars get complicated.

[adzhmal21]

i've got 2004 vw jetta 2.0L blue and i want bmw 3 series zhp realy bad

[kayger12]

any idea how much a swap would cost?

From what I've read, around $2,500 if you do everything yourself.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[MasterC17]

Totally not worth it to do a swap; if you really want a manual wait for the perfect car to come up and buy it and sell yours. It's not just the ~$2500 to do the swap, it's your time and labor too.

[otto99]

I think $2,500 is very conservative. It would cost that much for my son to de-auto his 635, and it's a far less complicated swap.

[johnrando]

there was but he has a black ZHP i dont really like black on a ZHP

Blasphemy! :-)

[otto99]

Blasphemy! :-)

I agree! Burn him at the stake! ;-)

Actually, I am of the opinion that there's no car ever made by BMW that doesn't look good in black. As partial evidence, I cite the E9, E24, E28, E34, E38 and E39. Oh, yeah, and the one below!

[az3579]

I agree! Burn him at the stake! ;-)

Actually, I am of the opinion that there's no car ever made by BMW that doesn't look good in black. As partial evidence, I cite the E9, E24, E28, E34, E38 and E39. Oh, yeah, and the one below!

For those of us that don't need the contrast, black is good. It doesn't really show off the lines of a car well though. This is what I'm told by a car collector.

Dunno if it was his take on it or if was like a car collector rule or something, just reminded me of it.

Regardless if I could have my car in Jerez Black, I would consider it...

Sent from my DROIDX

[otto99]

What is Jerez Black? I am unaware of this color.

[gr330zhp]

I would probably wait an find the right car, your ZHP will never be the same with a modification like that. It is a risky swap imo

:dunno just my opinion

[Marcus-SanDiego]

What is Jerez Black? I am unaware of this color.

Available on the E9X M3.

[otto99]

That didn't help. When I look at a photo, it looks like black. What is the difference between Jet, Carbon, and Jerez?

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Jet looks pure black.

Carbon has quite a bit of blue in it, which sparkles nicely in the sun.

Jerez looks just like carbon black, with perhaps a little more purple in it.

Not sure how well pictures do them justice. Better to see them in person. I've seen all three. Doesn't seem like a huge difference between jerez and carbon.

[bullfrogs_M3]

That didn't help. When I look at a photo, it looks like black. What is the difference between Jet, Carbon, and Jerez?

Don't forget Sapphire Black.

Jet usually came on our cars.
Carbon usually came on M3's.
Jerez usually came in...? (Mexico? Cause it sounds spanish to me :P J/K )

Back to the post, someone really needs to drop an SMG into a ZHP! Pure sexiness :drool:

[Crickett]

Back to the post, someone really needs to drop an SMG into a ZHP! Pure sexiness :drool:
There are part numbers for ZHP-specific SMG bits . . . cluster, SMG computer, etc.. Found 'em during a BMWFans.info research session a while back.

[Hornung418]

Neil1138 did a manual swap (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=659314) on his 328Ci...One thing I'd rather have from the factory after reading this thread...but he's a kid just like you and I, but he must have a huge pair, because I tremble at the sight of all those parts laid out on the floor...Not for the faint of heart!

[johnrando]

Don't forget Sapphire Black.

Jet usually came on our cars.
Carbon usually came on M3's.
Jerez usually came in...? (Mexico? Cause it sounds spanish to me :P J/K )

Back to the post, someone really needs to drop an SMG into a ZHP! Pure sexiness :drool:

The consensus seems to be that Carbon Black has much more blue in daylight, as Marcus said. Jerez is said to be a more purple black. Jet Black is more pure black.
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=88524

[otto99]

Thanks, all. I am aware of sapphire black, as I have it, but wasn't aware of the subtle differences in the later colors. Remember, I'm an old guy, and come from the days when there was one black (schwarz) that wasn't metallic, and Diamantschwarz, which was. Never could tell the difference really between Schwarz and Schwarz II, unless it was the blue/purple thing. I always thought that was dependent on ambient light more than anything.

[az3579]

The Jerez Black truly is something you have to appreciate, especially with the sun shining on it. If I had to get a Black, it is the only one I'd go for.

Of course Black would be last on my list, just because it's high maintenance and because I need more contrast in my life...
But, back to topic.

The swap does indeed cost a lot of money, and labor adds up quite a bit. These cars are very complicated electronics-wise, so it's not worth the effort.

[bullfrogs_M3]

Does anyone know the paint code for Jerez Black?

The most comprehensive BMW paint list on the interwebz is here....

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?583-BMW-Paint-Codes-List-%28Most-Comprehensive-List-on-the-Internet%29&highlight=paint

[az3579]

Paint code for Jerez Black is A73.

[bullfrogs_M3]

ummm wow! I don't even know what to say. It is just incredible IMO (other than the wood trim that is).

Arizona Sun Yellow interior on Velvet Blue exterior
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138954&stc=1

[bullfrogs_M3]

Paint code for Jerez Black is A73.

It's a Pearl color? WOW! I bet that looks incredible in the sunlight when it's clean

[Hornung418]

So about that manual swap...LOL

[bullfrogs_M3]

So about that manual swap...LOL

haha yea, this derailed quick. Yes, back to your swap

It can be done. There are a number of people on e46fanatics who I have read, that have done it. Find a wrecked 3 series on the "Parting Out" threads and pick up a tranny. It'll most likely soak you for close to $1K, so be prepared for that, long weekends and lots of "oh crap, I need this $2 part too?"

[otto99]

I think there's a thread about that somewhere. ;-)

[Hornung418]

LOL Not me...I've already got a 5spd. I did however post a link to the DIY from Niel1138 on e46F.

[billschusteriv]

So about that manual swap...LOL

Keeping us straight :)

330i ZHP dropped a 330 and manual trans into his touring to make a ZHP wagon. He said he's having issues to this day with transmission codes popping up. IIRC, the car thinks one of the auto trans pumps that comes on at low RPM/idle (like at a stop) should turn on and it isn't there.

He's got some good insights on the swap. I can get you a link to his threads if you want.

[Hornung418]

Is the Stu man on here? He needs to be more active if he is!

[VA//M3]

Keeping us straight :)

330i ZHP dropped a 330 and manual trans into his touring to make a ZHP wagon. He said he's having issues to this day with transmission codes popping up. IIRC, the car thinks one of the auto trans pumps that comes on at low RPM/idle (like at a stop) should turn on and it isn't there.

He's got some good insights on the swap. I can get you a link to his threads if you want.

All he would have to do is manually flash the DME to the performance package Software found in this website and he will no longer get auto trans cel's that is assuming he has a ZHP (cammed engine) and an MS45.1 DME.

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E46/Sedan/USA/330i-M54/LHD/N/2005/browse/engine_electrical_system/control_unit_dme_programmed/

[L0veZHP]

I think I rather just wait for an opportunity to find another car and trade. (Not black)

[billschusteriv]

All he would have to do is manually flash the DME to the performance package Software found in this website and he will no longer get auto trans cel's that is assuming he has a ZHP (cammed engine) and an MS45.1 DME.

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E46/Sedan/USA/330i-M54/LHD/N/2005/browse/engine_electrical_system/control_unit_dme_programmed/

Thanks! I'll pass this along.

[billschusteriv]

I thinks its wise that you wait until you find the car you want and trade/sell your ride. Unless of course you want one big project.


Is the Stu man on here? He needs to be more active if he is!

Stu is on here.

I was lucky enough to meet up with him - drove over to his shop at lunch with one of our business cards and found out he already joined.

I also walked around his 330 touring. Pictures just don't do that car justice.

[L0veZHP]

Would you think it smart if i trade it in for something less than a ZHP?

[az3579]

Would you think it smart if i trade it in for something less than a ZHP?

Blasphemy! Sacrilege!

(Did I get that right, Dane?)


I personally wouldn't trade it in on anything less. You get so much more with a ZHP than you do a standard 330i. I'd keep the auto than to get a standard 330, to be honest.

[L0veZHP]

Yeah I LOVE THE ZHP! with a passion.. but It has been a hugh investment and a big pocket drainer. I'm a college student in the bronx and money is real hard to come by. Buying the ZHP had a big negative effect on money for me.. but every time I get in it and drive I tell myself it was all worth it! lol but i've always wanted a Honda Civic Si Sedan.. Do you guys think that would be a good trade in? less money on maintenance, gas, and parts. They have about the same Horsepower.. and i love 4 doors! just because i think they are sexier than coupes. its complicated.. but these are my true emotions! Driving the ZHP is the only thing that safes it, that and my dad having a tity attack. (the ZHP is the 2nd car i ever owned) (btw never drove an SI before) and I'm a rookie driver still, I'm confident but I don't want to kill myself. im only 18 =/

I could just by any car with a manual but now that i owned a ZHP i want something thats up to par with it, i dont feel like going down the bar.. =/

[danewilson77]

Yeah I LOVE THE ZHP! with a passion.. but It has been a hugh investment and a big pocket drainer. I'm a college student in the bronx and money is real hard to come by. Buying the ZHP had a big negative effect on money for me.. but every time I get in it and drive I tell myself it was all worth it! lol but i've always wanted a Honda Civic Si Sedan.. Do you guys think that would be a good trade in? less money on maintenance, gas, and parts. They have about the same Horsepower.. and i love 4 doors! just because i think they are sexier than coupes. its complicated.. but these are my true emotions! Driving the ZHP is the only thing that safes it, that and my dad having a tity attack. (which is the 2nd car i ever owned) (btw never drove an SI before)

Are you asking if we think you should trade the zhp in on an Si?

Droid! Srs Legitness!

[az3579]

Yeah I LOVE THE ZHP! with a passion.. but It has been a hugh investment and a big pocket drainer. I'm a college student in the bronx and money is real hard to come by. Buying the ZHP had a big negative effect on money for me.. but every time I get in it and drive I tell myself it was all worth it! lol but i've always wanted a Honda Civic Si Sedan.. Do you guys think that would be a good trade in? less money on maintenance, gas, and parts. They have about the same Horsepower.. and i love 4 doors! just because i think they are sexier than coupes. its complicated.. but these are my true emotions! Driving the ZHP is the only thing that safes it, that and my dad having a tity attack. (which is the 2nd car i ever owned) (btw never drove an SI before)

Just FYI, The Civic Si only has 197hp, which is 38hp less at the crank. Plus it's a 4-banger, so you have to rev the nuts off of it to get any power.

But, as a college student, it would probably be smarter to have a Civic Si for all of the reasons you mentioned. It just fits the budget of a student better, unless you are hardcore dedicated BMW like myself. lol

[L0veZHP]

Yeah i kind of want you guys to compare! lol id also like to comepare and E46 m3 vs an Evo X lol this is my tread i can change the topic right? lol

[VA//M3]

. Do you guys think that would be a good trade in? less money on maintenance, gas, and parts. They have about the same Horsepower..
I could just by any car with a manual but now that i owned a ZHP i want something thats up to par with it, i dont feel like going down the bar.. =/

Get the si, if maintenance, gas, and cheap parts are your priorities. However, You are mistaken about Si's being up to par with ZHP's or a 330 for that matter. The 2.0L engine found in the Si has 197Hp @7000 rpm and 130 Ft-lbf at 6100RPM's and that is at the crank... Your ZHP or a 330 would smoke it! the M54b30 without the zhp cams has 228 @ 5900 RPM and 220 ft-lbf @ 3500!!!

At the wheels there is about a 15% loss so you would see about 205 and 202 respectively. With horsepower never dropping off below 200 at redline

An evoX or e46 M3 would be more expensive to own and maintain then your ZHP...

FYI, I test drove a 2009 Civic Si Coupe and I felt like I was in an econobox. The instant I got back into my 330 I was in SHOCK at just how much better the BMW is!

Go ahead and test drive an Si--Sometimes it takes a lick and a sour taste before you realize you've had it sweet for so long.

:mafia

[Hornung418]

It's called the 'torque-less wonder' for a reason :rofl

Love, I'd keep what you have, it's a great car and it certainly will get you from A-B with style and efficiency.

[johnrando]

I couldn't fairly answer that question as the only way I'd move from a ZHP to a Civic is if I were in dire financial straights. I just love my car too much. I've driven and owned a few different Hondas (not a SI though), and I'd never go back to one as my primary driver (again, unless I had too. My wife drives a Honda Pilot). My opinion is highly biased, but the Ultimate Driving Machine (in a ZHP no less) vs. a "practical, yet sporty" car is a no brainer. I'm sure people on this forum may try their best to answer that question logically, but emotionally (and maybe logically) it may be tough to get people to say to make the switch. Maybe you could get the opposite view by asking that question on a Honda forum. Try driving one to help make that decision for yourself. I understand how tough it is to afford these cars, especially being in college. My biased vote is stick with the ZHP if you can. You'll love yourself and the car in the long run (and maybe hate your wallet), but it's so worth it! :-)

[L0veZHP]

I couldn't fairly answer that question as the only way I'd move from a ZHP to a Civic is if I were in dire financial straights. I just love my car too much. I've driven and owned a few different Hondas (not a SI though), and I'd never go back to one as my primary driver (again, unless I had too. My wife drives a Honda Pilot). My opinion is highly biased, but the Ultimate Driving Machine (in a ZHP no less) vs. a "practical, yet sporty" car is a no brainer. I'm sure people on this forum may try their best to answer that question logically, but emotionally (and maybe logically) it may be tough to get people to say to make the switch. Maybe you could get the opposite view by asking that question on a Honda forum. Try driving one to help make that decision for yourself. I understand how tough it is to afford these cars, especially being in college. My biased vote is stick with the ZHP if you can. You'll love yourself and the car in the long run (and maybe hate your wallet), but it's so worth it! :-)


This made me really smile. I guess I'll just keep my ZHP until it dies on me. BMW "Ultimate Driving Machine" I'll kick up financially in the future for sure and I don't want to leave the MAFIA! :guns2 I'm not feeling the direction where BMW is going with the design of their cars... So its ZHP Sedan till i die! Eventually I'll get a Manual ZHP =]

[L0veZHP]

Get the si, if maintenance, gas, and cheap parts are your priorities. However, You are mistaken about Si's being up to par with ZHP's or a 330 for that matter. The 2.0L engine found in the Si has 197Hp @7000 rpm and 130 Ft-lbf at 6100RPM's and that is at the crank... Your ZHP or a 330 would smoke it! the M54b30 without the zhp cams has 228 @ 5900 RPM and 220 ft-lbf @ 3500!!!

At the wheels there is about a 15% loss so you would see about 205 and 202 respectively. With horsepower never dropping off below 200 at redline

An evoX or e46 M3 would be more expensive to own and maintain then your ZHP...

FYI, I test drove a 2009 Civic Si Coupe and I felt like I was in an econobox. The instant I got back into my 330 I was in SHOCK at just how much better the BMW is!

Go ahead and test drive an Si--Sometimes it takes a lick and a sour taste before you realize you've had it sweet for so long.

:mafia

Thanks for explaining the math to me and I just wanted to know the m3 vs evox I'm not interested in them at this point in my life lol
I have driven my cousins Civic and I know what you mean... he's always talking crap about Bmw and it being from Germany when he himself is not even from Japan.. but he never drove a BMW i know that for sure... I guess i'll keep the secret to myself of why BMW is called the Ultimate Driving Machine :ninja

[otto99]

My son had a 2009 Si sedan. Nice enough, but still a Civic. He did some suspension work on it and found some software that made the engine more responsive at lower rpm so you didn't have to zing it to 8 grand to get power. But it was still a Civic; a fast, fun to drive and killer at the autocross Civic. Honda bought it back from him (they apparently can't keep them on the lot) for his payoff and he bought a 635CSi.

[Linh]

I'm actually thinking opposite. Wanting to trade my manual for an automatic, seems more practical since no one in my family drives manual.

[Dotpage]

just to trow some fire.. Best thing I ever did was not to compromise and get back to manual. Auto made me a lazy driver and got me in trouble... Manual 100% from here on..

[L0veZHP]

well if anyone here ever thinks about trading a manual zhp for an auto hit me up.. i might consider it.

[az3579]

I'm actually thinking opposite. Wanting to trade my manual for an automatic, seems more practical since no one in my family drives manual.

Perhaps they need to learn. :biggrin

[danewilson77]

Perhaps they need to learn. :biggrin

I really don't see the big deal. If they don't want a manual...so be it. No biggie. That black 330Ci I had was an auto. It was a blast. That 325i ZSP I had, was an auto. It was fun as well...in sport mode.

Now that I've had both...I think the manual makes the driving experience a bit better. Additionally, learning to drive a manual at a young age, I believe, makes one, a more alert and attentive driver.

[az3579]

I really don't see the big deal. If they don't want a manual...so be it. No biggie. That black 330Ci I had was an auto. It was a blast. That 325i ZSP I had, was an auto. It was fun as well...in sport mode.

Now that I've had both...I think the manual makes the driving experience a bit better. Additionally, learning to drive a manual at a young age, I believe, makes one, a more alert and attentive driver.

I was sort of kidding. Lol
Kinda bums me when it's ruined for one person because everyone else can't drive it. I think the tranny should be whatever the *primary* driver prefers, not what "everyone else" can drive.

Sent from my DROIDX

[Terry]

So it seems we've arrived at several conclusions in this thread:

-Jerez Black is a nice color (along with the other blacks BMW has(d) offered)
-Transmission swap project is a lot of work and may require even more time (and money) to result in something perfect.
-BMW 330i ZHP is worth keeping even if money is tight because a Honda Civic SI will not be as enJOYable to drive
-Autos are fun too (hey, you get to practice left foot brake all day long)

and I'll close the case on the E46 M3 vs Mitisubishi Zero X: One is a sports car and JOY to drive. The other would be excellent in inclement weather and/or other-than-tarmac driving.

[danewilson77]

So it seems we've arrived at several conclusions in this thread:

-Jerez Black is a nice color (along with the other blacks BMW has(d) offered)
-Transmission swap project is a lot of work and may require even more time (and money) to result in something perfect.
-BMW 330i ZHP is worth keeping even if money is tight because a Honda Civic SI will not be as enJOYable to drive
-Autos are fun too (hey, you get to practice left foot brake all day long)

and I'll close the case on the E46 M3 vs Mitisubishi Zero X: One is a sports car and JOY to drive. The other would be excellent in inclement weather and/or other-than-tarmac driving.

Very nice synopsis...

[MsRN]

I'm actually thinking opposite. Wanting to trade my manual for an automatic, seems more practical since no one in my family drives manual.

Linh, I think I know where you could get an automatic... :)