Buying Winter Tires

[Dano516]

Hello All,

I've been searching for winter tires for a while now, making sure I don't mess this up, but the most recent winter tire threads seem to be a bit old.
I have found the Blizzak LM001 225/45R17 to be ideal, since we don't get a crazy amount of snow in New York City, but where I live, the snow doesn't seem to get plowed so fast, with a bit of hills to add to the mix.

Anyone have opinions on the LM001? I'm currently seeing them on Ebay, just over $800 for a set of four. I plan on mounting these to my winter wheel accessory style 23 M-Contour 17x7 rims.

[3ZHPGUY]

Hello All,

I've been searching for winter tires for a while now, making sure I don't mess this up, but the most recent winter tire threads seem to be a bit old.
I have found the Blizzak LM001 225/45R17 to be ideal, since we don't get a crazy amount of snow in New York City, but where I live, the snow doesn't seem to get plowed so fast, with a bit of hills to add to the mix.

Anyone have opinions on the LM001? I'm currently seeing them on Ebay, just over $800 for a set of four. I plan on mounting these to my winter wheel accessory style 23 M-Contour 17x7 rims.

I ran Bkizzak’s in northern Ohio for a few years 7+ years ago and they were excellent. I know it’s hard to improve on excellent but, Bridgestone probably has.

I grew up in Buffalo, NY and know snow pretty well. If you’re not dragging the under carriage, you won’t have an issue. Had Mich, Pilots before and was not impressed.


Sent from my iPhone Xs using Tapatalk

[Oli77]

I was not impressed with pirelli sottozero. I am running very cheap snow tires now and they do the job very well. Staying soft when it's super cold is half the battle. Get some thick grooves, and you're on the move!

[az3579]

The LM's I believe are the performance winter tires from Bridgestone. They should be higher speed rated IIRC and have better dry handling than the WS line. The WS line is better in the snow and ice, and LMs are better in the dry while still having good snow capability.

I have WS-80's on my touring and used them on the ZHP before I retired it from winter use. Nothing has stopped me yet.

[Vas]

Look at Nokian tires specifically Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3. The company HQ is in Finland and those guys know what snow is all about

[Dano516]

I ran Bkizzak’s in northern Ohio for a few years 7+ years ago and they were excellent. I know it’s hard to improve on excellent but, Bridgestone probably has.

I grew up in Buffalo, NY and know snow pretty well. If you’re not dragging the under carriage, you won’t have an issue. Had Mich, Pilots before and was not impressed.


Sent from my iPhone Xs using Tapatalk

Sheeesh, Buffalo huh. I guess I'm pulling the trigger.

[Dano516]

I was not impressed with pirelli sottozero. I am running very cheap snow tires now and they do the job very well. Staying soft when it's super cold is half the battle. Get some thick grooves, and you're on the move!

I was actually quite tempted by the sottozero prices, but thanks for the insight!

[Dano516]

The LM's I believe are the performance winter tires from Bridgestone. They should be higher speed rated IIRC and have better dry handling than the WS line. The WS line is better in the snow and ice, and LMs are better in the dry while still having good snow capability.

I have WS-80's on my touring and used them on the ZHP before I retired it from winter use. Nothing has stopped me yet.

Well if this winter in NYC is anything like last year's, we're going to have no boundaries in fluctuating temperatures. The WS line would probably be overkill for me, especially because last week was in the low 40's and today it's 60 degrees, a trend I expect to continue.

[Dano516]

Look at Nokian tires specifically Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3. The company HQ is in Finland and those guys know what snow is all about

I've seen nothing but good reviews for the Nokians, but these prices are going to kill me though.

[Vas]

I've seen nothing but good reviews for the Nokians, but these prices are going to kill me though.

Check out costco.com for their recent sales on Michelin and Bridgestone tires.

[az3579]

Nokian invented winter tires. You're darned right they're the best.

But... they're pretty hard to find locally. A lot of places don't carry them.

Speaking of which... I have (4) 16" nearly new studded Nokians if anyone needs a set! :biggrin

[alexandre]

+1 for Hakkas. Swear by them up here in Montreal, just mounted a new-to-me set of Hakka 8 on Style 68s.

Although, in NYC you might be better served by good all seasons you run year-round. I drove 3 years on DWS06 in Vancouver (BC) and it was plenty good enough for the occasional snowfall and biweekly ski trips up in the Rockies. Just gotta drive more defensively when on snow.

[az3579]

+1 for Hakkas. Swear by them up here in Montreal, just mounted a new-to-me set of Hakka 8 on Style 68s.

Although, in NYC you might be better served by good all seasons you run year-round. I drove 3 years on DWS06 in Vancouver (BC) and it was plenty good enough for the occasional snowfall and biweekly ski trips up in the Rockies. Just gotta drive more defensively when on snow.

I will never agree to all seasons being acceptable in the northeast. Driving defensively is not really all that possible in NYC; you need as much traction as you can get. The drivers in NYC are abominable; cutting you off and slamming on their brakes is as normal occurrence there.

[Reasoned1]

I’m currently running Toyo Celsius 225/45R17’s on my 330xi DD. I live in Vermont, have been through a few storms so far, and am VERY impressed. They’re advertised as all-seasons, but they’re fully winter-rated (mountain symbol). They have great traction in crappy conditions, but their “grip” on asphalt is significantly less than normal ultra-performance all-season tires (kinda fun at times). They normally go for $140+, but I caught them on sale at Walmart (online) last summer for $87 each (ka-ching!). I would definitely buy again for that price.

[fredo]

Discount Tire has 10% prepaid MasterCard by mail on your total purchase amount when you buy 4 tires and/or wheels.

Get an extra 5% by using your DT credit card.

Nov 28 thru Dec 01.

[az3579]

I’m currently running Toyo Celsius 225/45R17’s on my 330xi DD. I live in Vermont, have been through a few storms so far, and am VERY impressed. They’re advertised as all-seasons, but they’re fully winter-rated (mountain symbol).

Those are actually "all-weather" tires, not all-seasons. I recently found out this category exists, and I am certainly intrigued by the category. These have better winter grip than all-seasons do and are designed for areas that get snow but also have plenty of dry days. I don't think all seasons really are for areas that get significant snowfall but instead places like the south where it might get cold but don't really get much (if any) snow, with the capability of handling some very light snow action if needed.

For those that live near cities where the roads are regularly plowed, I'd say all weather tires are a good bet. I originally wanted to get some Nokian WR G4's (all weather tires), but they seem to be impossible to get, so I gave up on that idea.

[Hoonin88]

I ran blizzak for quite some time and then got tired of paying the premium. Been running sets of General Altimax Arctic's for the last few seasons and have had no issues. Currently $150 ea on TireRack.

[az3579]

I ran blizzak for quite some time and then got tired of paying the premium. Been running sets of General Altimax Arctic's for the last few seasons and have had no issues. Currently $150 ea on TireRack.

What premium are you referring to? WS-80's are less than $150 ea in 225/45-17 size.

[Hoonin88]

Not sure exactly what model of blizzak I was purchasing, but they were certainly more than $150 each. Currently on TireRack the cheapest blizzaks in 225/45/17 are $186 ea. And that's a closeout deal which includes road hazard as well.

[az3579]

Not sure exactly what model of blizzak I was purchasing, but they were certainly more than $150 each. Currently on TireRack the cheapest blizzaks in 225/45/17 are $186 ea. And that's a closeout deal which includes road hazard as well.

Tire Rack usually isn't the cheapest with a lot of things. Walmart has them at $142 per in 225/45-17 size. Giga-tires is at $141.84 per.

[Hoonin88]

Cross shopping is always good, but I typically count on TireRack for a few reasons. Free shipping, even to an installer. This is nice so i don't have to lug around tires, plus free and fast. Road hazard is included on nearly all tires, with a few exceptions. While they might not be the cheapest, their amenities are worth a few bucks and pretty much levels out the playing field when shipping and road hazard is added to the cart for competitors.

Those Generals are also a rebranded winter tire from sweden and hold up pretty well to the competition.

Funny story about walmart haha. I bought my first set of General winter tires from them and figured I would have them installed while I was there. They couldn't figure out how to get the existing tires off the wheels. Had to go to a tire shop to get them done anyway.

[Reasoned1]

Not to nitpick semantics, but an internet search of Toyo Celsius yields numerous references to them as all-seasons.

[holyc0w]

Not to nitpick semantics, but an internet search of Toyo Celsius yields numerous references to them as all-seasons.

Yeah, they're marketed as all seasons, but your previous observations are spot on. The mountain symbol indicates the tire meet severe snow service standards. Their design is balanced more towards winter performance, and you can see that by the tread. The con is that they don't do so well in the summer and won't last as long as typical all season tires.

I had Vredestein Quatrac 3s on my previous car. They did pretty well in the snow. It was just a regular fwd sedan, so they were worked in the summer for me too. It's a good year round tire for someone who wants better snow performance, but doesn't want to change tires or need better summer performance.

[Reasoned1]

It’ll be interesting to see how long they last (rated for 60k miles). I put 50k miles on a year—95% on interstate—so they might be the perfect commuter tire for me to throw on each fall. As I mentioned, though, they certainly lack the performance of normal ultra-performance tires (e.g., Toyo Proxes, which are quite good). For $87 a piece, it’s a no-brainer, but I’d look around before spending $140 each.

[az3579]

Not to nitpick semantics, but an internet search of Toyo Celsius yields numerous references to them as all-seasons.


Yeah, they're marketed as all seasons, but your previous observations are spot on.


Well the semantics matter in this case because the performance between all season and all weather is measurable. The Toyo Celsius tires are most definitely not all seasons. Toyo directly calls them "variable weather" on their website, but a promotional video they made for it directly call it an all-weather tire. Look at the tread blocks on them and you'll see they directly fit into that category. All seasons don't have all those extra sipes that these have.

The promotional video:

https://youtu.be/lAXdgPZiZX0?t=120

[holyc0w]

Well the semantics matter in this case because the performance between all season and all weather is measurable. The Toyo Celsius tires are most definitely not all seasons. Toyo directly calls them "variable weather" on their website, but a promotional video they made for it directly call it an all-weather tire. Look at the tread blocks on them and you'll see they directly fit into that category. All seasons don't have all those extra sipes that these have.

Yeah, those look pretty aggressive. On their site, they say they're in between winter and all season tires. I was thinking all season in terms of that they can be used in all seasons.

Vredestein makes a somewhat less aggressive severe snow service tire now, the Quatrac 5. But it has a lower treadwear rating than the Toyo tires. On their site they say:


The best tyre for all seasons

The Quatrac 5 gives you the luxury of one tyre for all weather conditions without compromising on safety or steering precision

On the sites that sell the tire, they post the following description:

The Vredestein Quatrac 5 tire is an all-season passenger car tire with an edgy design and new tire technologies for long tread-life, safety, grip and a smooth ride.

The Vredestein Quatrac 5 tire offers low rolling resistance, short braking distances on wet roads and an exceptionally quiet ride. The 3D grip claws in the tread deliver higher levels of grip when cornering and accelerating on snow and ice. You get greater stability and improved handling on dry surfaces from the innovative tread design thanks to the asymmetric outer longitudinal grooves. This tire is very wear resistant and offers a long tread life from the full silica compound.

[az3579]

I'm glad more companies are entering the segment for those in the more northern climates, though I'm less than amused by their choice of category name "all weather" for confusion's sake. lol

I'll have to do a closer dig to see just how much of a difference there is between winters and all weather tires. If they're pretty close I might downgrade to a WR G4 next time around, since our roads are generally decently plowed. If there's too much braking distance difference then I'll stick with the WS-80's.

[Reasoned1]

Part of the difference—if there is one—between all-weather and winter might be the lack of noise. I’m surprised how quiet those Toyo Celsius tires are.

[Dano516]

+1 for Hakkas. Swear by them up here in Montreal, just mounted a new-to-me set of Hakka 8 on Style 68s.

Although, in NYC you might be better served by good all seasons you run year-round. I drove 3 years on DWS06 in Vancouver (BC) and it was plenty good enough for the occasional snowfall and biweekly ski trips up in the Rockies. Just gotta drive more defensively when on snow.

Yep I totally would too, but my PO had pilot supersports on and they currently have plenty of tread left so I figured i just get winters.