Materials to Maintain Your ZHP IIIII Hand Protection IIIII Tools to Maintain Your ZHP
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  1. #1
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    Sep 2011
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    Sway Bar Configurations for track

    Hey guys,

    I would love a discussion about the optimal sway bar configurations for track days. Kyle brought the topic when I believe John bought only a front Hotchikis Bar. I am currently in the market to replace my front UUC 330i sway bar and rear OEM m3 sway bar. I am planning to sell the UUC 330i sway bar set and have a new setup.


    1. Front Bar Stiff, Rear bar OEM/soft
    2. Front Bar Medium, Rear bar Stiff


    I see config 1 being slower on turn in, but allows the power to be put down faster on exit. This seems optimal for auto-x but I don't know enough to say it would benefit track days with the 330i having so little power.

    config2 seems to be better for the 330i but I can see it being an issue for the M3 not being able to put the power down after the quick turn-in.




    Kyle,
    I would love it for you to chime in.


    Others,
    I would love a good discussion too!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Silicon Valley
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    1,630
    You know my recent choice--Hotchkis front bar and stock rear bar--but I haven't driven it on track or AutoX yet so cannot comment. For onramps and offramps, the car seems to corner flatter but I cannot tell if there is more or less grip because I rarely push the card hard enough on the street to get understeer or oversteer, or engage DSC.

    People who have stock or close-to-stock springs seem to buy front and rear bars in a matched set, whether it's from Hotchkis, Turner, H&R, or Eibach. Track and AutoX nuts do weird things like replace just one bar (limitation of SCCA Stock AutoX ruleset), buy the really expensive but infinitely adjustable Ground Control front swaybar, or run a very stiff front with no rear. But some of those nuts have coilovers with specifically selected spring rates. (Not calling you a nut or anything!)

    Would you consider front medium, rear soft/OEM? My front is currently at soft, which is 31% stiffer than stock. I was planning to do the middle setting, but thought the bar would hit control arms if I did that, until I get adjustable swaybar links.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2011
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    My immediate decision prior to your recent purchase was to order TMS M3 set of bars.

    Currently the present setup does have my UUC sway bar in the front set to medium. perhaps I should just do a HPDE this way and see how I like it. Chances are I would prefer the oversteer from a stiffer rear sway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

  4. #4
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    Yeah I would guess using an aftermarket rear sway in the stiffest position would usually lead to oversteer/fun!

    Do you--or anyone here--know if going to a stiffer sway generally means one should set more or less rebound damping on the shock or strut? What about compression damping if you have it (I don't)? I'm thinking of buying some used 650lb rear springs and moving my 547lb springs to the front, to try it out. But maybe I should do a track day and AutoX with the new swaybar first.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    I'll get my information in here after work later tonight. Didn't forget about you guys.

    Typically, sway bar is the last thing you need to adjust

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


    Project STX: TCKline Racing l APEX l Vorshlag l Eibach l Hawk l Schroth l BMW Performance

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by M0nk3y View Post
    I'll get my information in here after work later tonight. Didn't forget about you guys.

    Typically, sway bar is the last thing you need to adjust

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
    Cmon Kyle you are slipping!


    Plans are to buy the TMS bars but I think I will do a track day without them and run the UUC sway at few settings to see how I like it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    Cleveland/Dayton
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    Quote Originally Posted by derbo View Post
    Hey guys,

    I would love a discussion about the optimal sway bar configurations for track days. Kyle brought the topic when I believe John bought only a front Hotchikis Bar. I am currently in the market to replace my front UUC 330i sway bar and rear OEM m3 sway bar. I am planning to sell the UUC 330i sway bar set and have a new setup.


    1. Front Bar Stiff, Rear bar OEM/soft
    2. Front Bar Medium, Rear bar Stiff


    I see config 1 being slower on turn in, but allows the power to be put down faster on exit. This seems optimal for auto-x but I don't know enough to say it would benefit track days with the 330i having so little power.

    config2 seems to be better for the 330i but I can see it being an issue for the M3 not being able to put the power down after the quick turn-in.




    Kyle,
    I would love it for you to chime in.
    My fault!

    I'm very good friends with the Internet Manager @ TCKline in Columbus. I've talked with him heavily about sway-bar set-ups.

    Initially, I wanted to get a front/rear match set for my car, and Eric Maxwell, refused to sell me a rear bar. He told me "If you want to give me money, go ahead, but I would never run a rear bar"

    Just to clarify, Eric Maxwell has raced Z4Ms, E36s...etc and never ran a rear bar. He actually removed them.

    Kale, the internet manager, told me that TC Kline's theory is that if you make the suspension too stiff, you won't be able to get weight transfer, which equals grip on the real wheels.

    You'll see a lot of cars lifting front wheels, which actually benefits what I was told above. The inside wheel, is off the ground which equals no grip. Obviously the grip needs to go somewhere, so it is transferred to the inner rear wheel.


    I can see #2 giving you trouble if you run an open diff, since you'll reduce this weight transfer and may spin the inner wheel.


    If you want some professional opinions. I suggest you call TCKline racing. They are awesome people that are willing to help people whether or not you're buying from them


    Project STX: TCKline Racing l APEX l Vorshlag l Eibach l Hawk l Schroth l BMW Performance

  8. #8
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    So mmmmmm.... TC Kline's shop is saying it's a good thing I didn't buy the Hotchkis rear bar?

  9. #9
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    Sep 2011
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    Thanks Kyle! I was just pushing your response about it


    My specs currently is this:

    Ground Control Coilovers + Swift Springs F 448lbs/in R 560lbs/in
    Camber F -3 R -2
    Toe F -0.02' R 0.11'
    UUC Front 330i Sway bar (I believe set to medium if I remember correctly)
    M3 OEM Rear Sway bar

    I did install an M3 rear end so that is yet another variable to the characteristic change of the 330i now.


    Sounds like I may need see if my front sway can go to full stiff and see how it feels.

  10. #10
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    Jan 1970
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    TIRERACK.com - Revolutionizing Tire Buying
    You certainly have enough camber to try full stiff. There becomes a law of diminishing returns if you have limited camber and try to throw a huge bar on the front, you'll create an understeer pig

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


    Project STX: TCKline Racing l APEX l Vorshlag l Eibach l Hawk l Schroth l BMW Performance

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