Kling to your ZHPs kids...

[LivesNearCostco]

If BMW is going to continue to chase big unit numbers, it needs another sub-brand like Mini or Rolls Royce to avoid brand dilution. Toyota has Lexus & Scion. GM has Chevy (performance or all-American), Buick (China), Cadillac (luxury) and GMC (trucks/SUVs). When Daimler bought Chrysler, that didn't work out too well, but they still have Smart cars and a few truck brands.

Perhaps the king of this is VW. Not only do they have Volkswagon, Audi and Porsche in their stable, but also Bentley, Skoda, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ducatti and Scania. Maybe that's too many brands, but if GM has 4 and VW has 7 (for cars) I think BMW needs more than 3, isstead of having the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 series cars pus the X SAVs.

The 2 big questions are..
1) Should BMW's be the driving performance brand or should that be new sub-brand? ?
2) Is it too late for BMW to make this change?

And when driving enthusiasts leave BMW going, where do they go (besides to older BMWs)? Those with lots of money can of course go to Porsche, Audi R8, Tesla, Nissan GTR, McLaren, Italian Exotic, etc. But what about the rest? To Toyobarus? Ford Mustang? Mazda 3?

[QC_ZHP]

If BMW is going to continue to chase big unit numbers, it needs another sub-brand like Mini or Rolls Royce to avoid brand dilution. Toyota has Lexus & Scion. GM has Chevy (performance or all-American), Buick (China), Cadillac (luxury) and GMC (trucks/SUVs). When Daimler bought Chrysler, that didn't work out too well, but they still have Smart cars and a few truck brands.

Perhaps the king of this is VW. Not only do they have Volkswagon, Audi and Porsche in their stable, but also Bentley, Skoda, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ducatti and Scania. Maybe that's too many brands, but if GM has 4 and VW has 7 (for cars) I think BMW needs more than 3, isstead of having the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 series cars pus the X SAVs.

The 2 big questions are..
1) Should BMW's be the driving performance brand or should that be new sub-brand? ?
2) Is it too late for BMW to make this change?

And when driving enthusiasts leave BMW going, where do they go (besides to older BMWs)? Those with lots of money can of course go to Porsche, Audi R8, Tesla, Nissan GTR, McLaren, Italian Exotic, etc. But what about the rest? To Toyobarus? Ford Mustang? Mazda 3?

Great post, I think you're absolutely right. If BMW wants to start targeting these other markets, they're image is going to change drastically over time. VW group's 7 brands is definitely a lot, but I say why not? They've become the largest automotive group around, manufacturing a brand for a wide variety of markets. Their footprint in the industry is enormous. I understand why BMW would want their name of things like the i3 and even x series SUV's, but the amount of series they're beginning to produce seems like a bit overkill for a company that portrays a performance image.


Edit: And since I come from a mustang background, I'll just say that I know the Mustang gets a lot of hate for its excessive popularity and cheap interior, etc., but it looks like they're getting back on the right track. The Coyote 5.0 Mustangs can really perform and even out performed the e92 M on track tests. Very affordable car with a great aftermarket community. I'm anxious to see how the new 2014+ models evolve.

[Hermes]

VW also owns Seat (Spanish brand), which are considered to basically be cheap VW's (more basic) with different badges

[kayger12]

I knew it was over for BMW when I read this article this summer. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Among the painful things I read:

Is it possible that the BMW has the worst steering here?

The M Sport is capable, but it’s not as engaging as either opponent. It seems to say to the driver, “Here, I’ll do it.” And it does, but without the grace of the Lexus or the thrill of the Cadillac.

[ryankokesh]

That's a sentence I never hoped to hear....


Sent from my iPhone

[johnrando]

I knew it was over for BMW when I read this article this summer. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Among the painful things I read:

Is it possible that the BMW has the worst steering here?

The M Sport is capable, but it’s not as engaging as either opponent. It seems to say to the driver, “Here, I’ll do it.” And it does, but without the grace of the Lexus or the thrill of the Cadillac.

Holy cow! BMW can't match the thrill of the Cadillac????? A Cadillac. Words I would have bet my life I'd never read. But you know, good for Cadillac (not that I'd ever buy one - I have my ZHP).

[fredo]

I can't visualize in the same showroom a guy buying an M3 and a guy buying a minivan.

[LivesNearCostco]

And that is a problem Toyota and Honda face. They are so dominant in sensible sedans, SUVs, hybrids, econoboxes and minivans that it's hard for them to sell their brands as sporty. (Honda did have the Civic SI and Integra Type-R.) That's why the FRS is sold as a Scion and the past/future NSX is an Acura. BMW was dominating the sporty luxury car for drivers, but in their quest to increase unit sales, go mainstream, and comply with US CAFE regulations (and Euro carbon footprint taxes) they are loosing their mojo. I think their acquisition and relaunch of Mini was brilliant. Mini is fun, different, sporty, selling well, and it's okay to be FWD. It's close enough to BMW to enhance the BMW family affiliate (and help BMW with fleet average fuel economy) but separate enough not to dilute the BMW brand.

Wonder if they could acquire or build another less-sporty brand that does FWD, minivans, and/or ultra-lux cars. Or have a more sporty division that is more independent or more "pure sports car" than the M division. Not sure SUVs have to be separate.. originally would have said yes, but if Porsche and Audi can have a successful SUV, then BMW sure can.

One thing that puzzles me -- how does Subaru simultaneously do well in "practical all-wheel drive wagons for dog lovers and rural families" and in the Boost Buggy market?

[az3579]

One thing that puzzles me -- how does Subaru simultaneously do well in "practical all-wheel drive wagons for dog lovers and rural families" and in the Boost Buggy market?

Well, the key thing to understand is that just because a car has boost, that doesn't necessarily mean that the owner/driver cares. This applies to the A to B drivers that don't really care about the driving experience.

For the wagon lovers, well... most of Subaru's models are available with AWD, so those who want an AWD wagon and not have to pay through the nose can get one. For the Boost lovers, they have access to a car that is incredibly quick and can be made faster than most high-performance cars for less money than a brand new premium brand car, like a BMW 335i for example.

As far as these niches go, Subaru's got this one locked down.

[cakM3]

Because BMW has gone full retard:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/16/b...rer-spy-shots/

Looks to me like BMW copied Honda this time around.....I'll just stick to the E46 chassis myself....