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Thread: just another sunroof-less ZHP autocross STX build and events chronicle

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    So, here is a lap from last weekend. it was my first time out since adding the rear adjustable lower control arm. wow, what a difference. I ran ~3 deg of neg camber out back. as you can see, the rear never budged, I had previously had a lot of trouble with it getting loose under braking. this event was also the first event I have left foot braked. was a good test weekend, there is a lot more speed out there once I get to trusting the new found rear grip and get better gaging the needed braking with the left foot...
    Woah dude...-3* of rear camber? What's the toe settings?

    Under braking would all be dedicated by toe, not camber.


    And don't worry about the Tour. It'll be sensory overload....just go and have fun. Make it a learning experience.


    Project STX: TCKline Racing l APEX l Vorshlag l Eibach l Hawk l Schroth l BMW Performance

  2. #22
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    Dec 2014
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    adjusting the rear camber from 2 deg to 3 deg of neg camber takes the toe out of factory spec and results in just over .5 deg of total toe in. not far from factory specs and I think advantageous to putting power down coming out of corners...

    Previously (prior to camber increase) if I wasn't completely done braking when I went to turn into a high speed corner the rear would loosen and try to come around...

    Yeah, agree, I think the tour event will be somewhat overwhelming... and exhausting, never done 3 straight days before...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    adjusting the rear camber from 2 deg to 3 deg of neg camber takes the toe out of factory spec and results in just over .5 deg of total toe in. not far from factory specs and I think advantageous to putting power down coming out of corners...

    Previously (prior to camber increase) if I wasn't completely done braking when I went to turn into a high speed corner the rear would loosen and try to come around...

    Yeah, agree, I think the tour event will be somewhat overwhelming... and exhausting, never done 3 straight days before...
    Wow, that's a TON of toe.

    I'm no where near that (actually less than half of that) of total toe on my rear tires and I don't have issues with power down out of corners. Rear coming out (especially off throttle) seems like an issue with a rear bar, or suspension and/or shock settings. I run -2* rear with less toe and don't have issues with the rear coming around.


    Food for thought. If it works for you run with it, but I think it almost is hiding another issue.


    Project STX: TCKline Racing l APEX l Vorshlag l Eibach l Hawk l Schroth l BMW Performance

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    I did the oil pan gasket this week. it had given up quite a while ago. sludge all over the bottom of the engine/trans. at the same time I went ahead and did lower control arms (meyle hd) and Z4M bushings. also did motor moutns and since an alignment would be required I went ahead and pressed out the RTABs in favor of the black polys.

    in case anyone is wondering.... I have an old set of std 330i a-arms, meyles and zhps in one place at one time... what a photo op. my observation is that std and zhp the only difference is the ball joints.

    Attachment 17886
    nice, that's a good amount of work to tackle! love your hitch-mounted rack, too, that is cool.

    is that standard 330i arm aluminum and really dirty? if so, yes, the only difference between them and the ZHP arms are the ball joints.

    let us know what you think of the meyle HD's.

    peter
    peter

    2009 BMW 335i M Sport 6MT

    2015 VW Golf TSI Comfortline 5MT

    2007 BMW X3 3.0si M Sport 6MT

  5. #25
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    It is quite a bit of rear toe. I am going to reset up the car and measure it out this week. I haven't since I just recently put the Z4M bushing in, will report what my induced rear toe is... however, since increasing rear camber and putting the wavetrac in, rear stability under braking has been fantastic. more to follow... I do think some toe in, in the rear is beneficial for coming out of corners, it will give the outside, planted tire a slightly better angle.

    Yeah, the std 330i arms have been sitting beside my house for ~3 yrs, waiting for me to accumulate enough scrap to drop it off a recycling yard... so yes, they are quite dirty. I ran meyles on my previous 330i as well. I have never driven brand new genuine bmw, so its hard to say. but, considering the ball joints are the only difference in the ZHP arms and the meyles are re-engineered from ZHP ball joints they should be comparable. I don't think anybody could realistically discern a handling difference between the meyles and zhp arms...

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    On the E46 non-M Ground Control normally sells a front spring rate of 440 lbs/inch with a rear spring of 550 (actually 547) lbs/inch. Or a front spring rated 500/525 with a rear spring of 650. So if your rear spring is 550, the front is probably a 440, though of course people do order custom rates or change them afterward. And I'm not sure what rates they recommend for E46 M3. If you loaded the front wheel with 850 lbs and it actually compressed 1.93" instead of 1.75" that would make your front spring rate 440 lbs/inch.

    Can you tell if the front spring is branded Ground Control or just Eibach?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    I am still trying to figure out what exactly my front spring rate is. the markings are gone. they are certainly 6" in free length.

    I did make a crude estimate while I had the sway bar free. I figure there is between 850-950 lbs on either front wheel with the car balanced and on the ground. so with the tire off (and sway bar disconnected) using a floor jack I loaded one front tire. spring compressed 1.75". so that roughly translate to a spring rate of 500 lbs/in. which makes since considering the rears that came with the M3 GC kit are 550. (they are clearly marked)

  7. #27
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    Dec 2014
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    Thanks for the thoughts. The kit was purchased for an M3, I bought the GC kit used. the only part of the kit that I currently are the springs and perches. the person who bought the kit was not a 'car-guy' so I don't see him special requesting spring rates. they are eibach springs, the rears still have their logo and part number. I am pretty confident in the 1.75" measurement, but the amount of weight on that tire at that time is a bit of a guess. I didn't use a scale, in fact the car has never been on a scale or corner balanced...

  8. #28
    Join Date
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    I meant Ground Control sells both standard Eibach race springs and special "Ground Control" branded Eibach Race Springs in special rates. If they are labeled only Eibach, that's one set of available rates, and if they are labeled both Ground Control and Eibach/ERS, that can be a different set of rates. The Eibach 6" length 2.5" ID coilover springs are available from 400-1450 lbs/inch mostly in 50 lb/in increments, so 400, 450, 500, etc. The GC spec spring in that size is 440 lbs/inch.

    The 16 GC spec Eibach springs: http://www.ground-control-store.com/...ory.php/CA=214
    Regular Eibach spring catalog (see page 19): http://eibach.com/sites/devperforman.../ERS_19_US.pdf

    As for the weight on the corner with the wheel jacked up... I think if you jacked it up to the ride height where it sits when the car is sitting flat on level ground, then the weight on the spring should be the same as the normal corner weight of the car. That is if the front right corner normally gets 900 lbs on the ground and compresses 1.75", then compressing it 1.75" must have put 900 lbs on the spring (minus about 100 lbs of unsprung weight from the wheel, hub, brake and strut in that corner).

  9. #29
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    Dec 2014
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    jacksonville FL
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    Based on the free size and options, makes me pretty sure they are 500s up front. thanks for links.

  10. #30
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    Dec 2014
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    jacksonville FL
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    TIRERACK.com - Revolutionizing Tire Buying
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    I got around to setting the car up for the track for purposes of taking alignment (mechanical) measurements this afternoon. I am maxing out front neg camber and going two full turns on the rear lower control arm.

    both of these changes result in 2.9-3.0 deg of neg camber.

    this induces 0.5 deg of total toe out in the front and more than 0.5 deg of toe in out back. think both of those numbers are desirable and felt pretty good the first time out. but that was on concrete. next weeks event is on old asphalt. swaybars will be set at max stiff up front and max loose out back, going to start with 38-39 psi in the rivals.

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