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Thread: Manual Vs Auto

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Branford, CT
    Posts
    16,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Simmsled View Post
    I would argue that the performance difference between a properly driven Step, and a properly driven manual is really only a factor when you hit the track. AND, the performance difference is a LOT closer than you'd ever expect.
    So now we're getting into 'usage case' differences. Off the line, a manual will always win (with proper technique), and since there's no power difference between the two and the fact that the auto ultimately means the power isn't put down as effectively, it will never catch up once behind unless the manual driver misses a shift.

    So, in essence, a properly launched manual will always win, potentially by a decent margin depending on driver skill. An improperly launched manual will not win. It definitely is a case of driver skill and scenario, but when compared apples to apples with competent drivers, the manual has a noticeable advantage.

    With that said, the overall difference will not be night and day (like a 911 version a 325i); the overall result will probably be less than a second apart over the course of a quarter mile. So, it all depends on what you want to use the car for.

    For auto-x, an auto is unacceptable if you plan on being competitive, because you're giving away valuable time at the start line since you can't get as good of a launch. In ANY other scenario, however, the difference between the two is negligible.

    In terms of pure shift speed in a scenario where let's say you're on a time attack around the track, the manual is still better because you can shift it faster if you put a little effort into it. It'll be a very small difference, but in a time attack, every millisecond counts.

    Any street scenario that doesn't involve stop light racing is pretty much a toss-up between the two, and usually gives a nod to the auto in terms of overall drivability. The autos shift smoother under normal driving conditions, and around town, nobody is going to be speed shifting a manual, so overall around town an auto is peppier if you have a heavy foot. Let's also not forget about how much easier it is to take off at a light while, let's say, making a left. You don't have to worry about breaking traction, which could cause a problem when there's oncoming traffic, allowing you to quickly zip through without all the jerkiness a manual requires for a "quick" getaway.


    They both have their advantages. For TIMED performance driving, get a manual. For anything else, an auto is just as good.




    I have driven a Step ZHP and was perfectly fine with its performance, just for point of view. I like the short 2nd gear because it allows for some quicker acceleration. I have not driven a regular 330 automatic, so I can't compare.
    BP
    2005 330i ZHP / 6MT
    Imolarot / Naturbraun
    2003 330iT / 6MT
    Orientblau / Naturbraun




    It's not the car you drive, it's how you drive it.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    2,973
    Yea for the record, I track and autox my ZHP and punch well above my car's class, however, it's all for fun and not SCCA level of competition, even if there is timing and awards.


    His: 05 330 ZHP Imola Red - 07 Z4 M Coupe Imola Red
    Hers: 04 330i ZSP
    2004 325 M56 Steel Blue Metallic - Sold
    Stephen's DD & AutoX/HPDE Build Thread
    Stewart WP - Z4M LCAB - M3 trans/motor mounts - DICE MediageBridge Duo - ARC-8 17x8.5"
    DrVANOS - Mason Engineering Race Strut Bar - E30 Exp. Cap - Custom Black+Beige Interior - M3 Seats
    Bilstein PSS10 - Turner Sway Bars 27/21 - ECST RTAB Limiters - R.E. RSM


  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    547
    Quote Originally Posted by stephenkirsh View Post
    I've had two auto e46s, in addition to driving my dad's zsp auto.

    There's no difference in the shift programming in any way, other than a higher red line in the ZHP.

    The difference you might be experiencing is a ZF vs GM transmission.
    I respect your opinion, but mine differs from yours.

    You likely don't know this, so I'll fill in the blanks...
    There are 2 different part numbers for the transmission computer. One specifically for ZHP pkg :
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=24_0886
    The final drive is different from every other Steptronic E46 BMW made.
    The upshift and downshift points are different per given speed/yaw angle/braking input

    I have driven both of my Steptronics that have 'learned' my driving algorithm, I'm the only one that drives them, back to back with the sole intent of looking for differences.

    The ZHP programming holds a gear longer, will downshift at higher RPM with given steering/brake input.
    Its tolerance to upshift during hard cornering is much higher.

    Different final drive ratio
    Different engine red line
    Different part number

    Different programming.

    BMW CCA # 510252

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    2,973

    Manual Vs Auto

    Have you checked to see which transmissions they have?


    I only drive my autos in manual mode, in which there is no "learning" for the computer to do. I tell it to do what when I want it. Therefore, there's no differences between ZHP and zsp.


    His: 05 330 ZHP Imola Red - 07 Z4 M Coupe Imola Red
    Hers: 04 330i ZSP
    2004 325 M56 Steel Blue Metallic - Sold
    Stephen's DD & AutoX/HPDE Build Thread
    Stewart WP - Z4M LCAB - M3 trans/motor mounts - DICE MediageBridge Duo - ARC-8 17x8.5"
    DrVANOS - Mason Engineering Race Strut Bar - E30 Exp. Cap - Custom Black+Beige Interior - M3 Seats
    Bilstein PSS10 - Turner Sway Bars 27/21 - ECST RTAB Limiters - R.E. RSM


  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    VA/DC
    Posts
    14,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Vas View Post
    Not worth it. If you want a manual car, sell the auto and get a manual one.
    +1


    Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    VA/DC
    Posts
    14,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Simmsled View Post
    I respect your opinion, but mine differs from yours.

    You likely don't know this, so I'll fill in the blanks...
    There are 2 different part numbers for the transmission computer. One specifically for ZHP pkg :
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=24_0886
    The final drive is different from every other Steptronic E46 BMW made.
    The upshift and downshift points are different per given speed/yaw angle/braking input

    I have driven both of my Steptronics that have 'learned' my driving algorithm, I'm the only one that drives them, back to back with the sole intent of looking for differences.

    The ZHP programming holds a gear longer, will downshift at higher RPM with given steering/brake input.
    Its tolerance to upshift during hard cornering is much higher.

    Different final drive ratio
    Different engine red line
    Different part number

    Different programming.



    Thumbs, iPhone, TaT.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    6,050
    Quote Originally Posted by stephenkirsh View Post
    Have you checked to see which transmissions they have?


    I only drive my autos in manual mode, in which there is no "learning" for the computer to do. I tell it to do what when I want it. Therefore, there's no differences between ZHP and zsp.
    except final drive and redline...
    peter

    2004 330i ZHP
    2005 330iT ZHP
    2010 328iT M Sport

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    212
    LoL
    don't know about you guys, but I feel much younger with the Manual.... my own personal Humble opinion


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    212
    and I have noticed in the last past
    10 days of owning the Manual
    my speed is always around 80-90 oops....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Branford, CT
    Posts
    16,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Alikessu View Post
    and I have noticed in the last past
    10 days of owning the Manual
    my speed is always around 80-90 oops....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Odd you say that because I tend to drive a lot more briskly with an automatic...
    BP
    2005 330i ZHP / 6MT
    Imolarot / Naturbraun
    2003 330iT / 6MT
    Orientblau / Naturbraun




    It's not the car you drive, it's how you drive it.

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