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Thread: How concerned should I be about subframe/floorpan cracks and autocrossing?

  1. #11
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    thanks, san.

    yep, that first post has lots of good info in it! vince is a heck of a nice guy, i have gained a lot of knowledge on the RACP issues from speaking with him. i would highly recommends folks here check out the link you posted.
    peter

    2018 Subaru BRZ RS 6MT

    2015 VW Golf TSI Comfortline 5MT

  2. #12
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    Honestly, he doesn't have to go that crazy and do Vince's fix. From my research and talking to him before. Doing the Mason Engineering brace + Reddish plates should be plenty. His fix is like way above that to go beyond bulletproof. And if you wanted fully bulletproof, you should just wait until Vince comes out with his version of the Mason's X-brace.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillieidiot View Post
    Honestly, he doesn't have to go that crazy and do Vince's fix. From my research and talking to him before. Doing the Mason Engineering brace + Reddish plates should be plenty. His fix is like way above that to go beyond bulletproof. And if you wanted fully bulletproof, you should just wait until Vince comes out with his version of the Mason's X-brace.
    the mason brace does not tie into the frame rails. the redish plates are excellent, but again, they are not addressing main issue.

    personally, i don't think anything less than what the VinceBar is achieving (tying into the rear frame rails) is worth doing. plates compliment it, yes - they will reinforce the lowest sheet metal of the RACP - but they are not a stand-alone solution as they do not address the root of the problem.

    what is 'crazy' about vince's solution? vince has developed an epoxy- and rivet-on kit - you don't even need to weld anything! anyone who can safely lift the car in the air, and use basic hand tools (dremel, electric drill, rivet gun, etc) can do this. i think it's ingenious.

    i'm not a crazy driver; my car has seen zero track time, i'm not drifting it, i never do hard launches. it does see normal brisk acceleration and some high lateral g's, which i'm sure other folks' cars here do as well. so if my RACP can crack - it's only a matter of time until others follow suit.
    peter

    2018 Subaru BRZ RS 6MT

    2015 VW Golf TSI Comfortline 5MT

  4. #14
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    Wow! Lots of great info here. I really appreciate the in-depth break-down of the what the problem is and how to inspect, what to look for and how to insure you don't have a problem. I hate that this is a major weak link to the E46 because this is such an awesome platform. Makes me wonder if this was the beginning to cost reduction in engineering. I have had several owners of the fifth gen 3 series complain of how cheaply built some of the drive-train pieces are. Of all the previous BMW's I have owned, I would say that they were very over engineered. My E28 was like a brick $#!+ house!

    2013 Camaro 2SS The Wife's!
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by slater View Post
    the mason brace does not tie into the frame rails. the redish plates are excellent, but again, they are not addressing main issue.

    personally, i don't think anything less than what the VinceBar is achieving (tying into the rear frame rails) is worth doing. plates compliment it, yes - they will reinforce the lowest sheet metal of the RACP - but they are not a stand-alone solution as they do not address the root of the problem.

    what is 'crazy' about vince's solution? vince has developed an epoxy- and rivet-on kit - you don't even need to weld anything! anyone who can safely lift the car in the air, and use basic hand tools (dremel, electric drill, rivet gun, etc) can do this. i think it's ingenious.

    i'm not a crazy driver; my car has seen zero track time, i'm not drifting it, i never do hard launches. it does see normal brisk acceleration and some high lateral g's, which i'm sure other folks' cars here do as well. so if my RACP can crack - it's only a matter of time until others follow suit.
    Mainly just the price. Most people wouldn't even be able to DIY it still though IMO. But in terms of best bang for the buck. Plate + vince's front kit should do a ton already. Obviously not bulletproof, but it's way better than doing nothing.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by slater View Post
    the mason brace does not tie into the frame rails. the redish plates are excellent, but again, they are not addressing main issue.

    personally, i don't think anything less than what the VinceBar is achieving (tying into the rear frame rails) is worth doing. plates compliment it, yes - they will reinforce the lowest sheet metal of the RACP - but they are not a stand-alone solution as they do not address the root of the problem.

    what is 'crazy' about vince's solution? vince has developed an epoxy- and rivet-on kit - you don't even need to weld anything! anyone who can safely lift the car in the air, and use basic hand tools (dremel, electric drill, rivet gun, etc) can do this. i think it's ingenious.

    i'm not a crazy driver; my car has seen zero track time, i'm not drifting it, i never do hard launches. it does see normal brisk acceleration and some high lateral g's, which i'm sure other folks' cars here do as well. so if my RACP can crack - it's only a matter of time until others follow suit.
    There should be a like button. Great info, Peter. Thanks!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillieidiot View Post
    Mainly just the price. Most people wouldn't even be able to DIY it still though IMO.
    what's wrong with the price? vince's kit is around $675. that is a HECK of a lot cheaper than repairing a torn floor. it's a bargain, and cheap insurance.

    as for the DIY-ability, vince has made it as easy as he can. folks who can't DIY will pay someone to do it. that's how it is with any other trade; if you can't do it, you pay a professional.


    Quote Originally Posted by sillieidiot View Post
    But in terms of best bang for the buck. Plate + vince's front kit should do a ton already. Obviously not bulletproof, but it's way better than doing nothing.
    i disagree. it's the same as doing nothing... the front kit is not addressing the root of the problem - it's supporting it, but not addressing it. why bother doing anything at all if you're not going to address the root of the problem?

    an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!


    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Lazlo View Post
    There should be a like button. Great info, Peter. Thanks!
    thanks, man. this forum is about helping each other out, and i feel this is really important.

    peter

    2018 Subaru BRZ RS 6MT

    2015 VW Golf TSI Comfortline 5MT

  8. #18
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    How concerned should I be about subframe/floorpan cracks and autocrossing?

    The more rigid we make our suspensions ( M3 bushings poly, solid rubber, springs shocks) the more stress will be put on those mounts. All that soft stuff we take out is absorbing a lot of that stress which would otherwise be transferred to the mounts.
    I was originally going to just do the reddish mounts eventually but I'm rethinking that.
    Thanks for the info!
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    M3 Motor mounts, UUC Trans mounts, Modified clutch style LSD 3.15, TMS front subframe reinforcement, Koni Yellow sports,
    H&R sport springs,
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    Rotora strut bar, FXR HID conversion, M3 Mirror conversion, BSW stage 1 speakers

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by slater View Post
    what's wrong with the price? vince's kit is around $675. that is a HECK of a lot cheaper than repairing a torn floor. it's a bargain, and cheap insurance.

    as for the DIY-ability, vince has made it as easy as he can. folks who can't DIY will pay someone to do it. that's how it is with any other trade; if you can't do it, you pay a professional.

    I think the math is off. I got like $711 for the epoxy/rivet kit/tool kit (normal version)/shipping. And that is with the current GB pricing @ 10% off. Then labor if you can't install it. So yeah it's a lot. It's basically AT LEAST that much. That's not the total price. You're going to need plates either way if you haven't gotten it already. Need some poly or solid aluminum bushings too.

    I guess you could go with the cheapest unassembled stuff. But the labor for welding everything up ends up costing like the same unless you can DIY that too. It's only cheap if you can DIY everything.

    Do you even know how much it costs to replace the floor? It costs the same as doing his reinforcement with labor. I would rather do his reinforcement though because that is like a one and done deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by slater
    i disagree. it's the same as doing nothing... the front kit is not addressing the root of the problem - it's supporting it, but not addressing it. why bother doing anything at all if you're not going to address the root of the problem?

    an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
    No, it's better than doing nothing .

    At least that way, you have to option to continue doing the full bar. It's modular. It's like you did like stage 1 (I consider it stage 2 though lol). I'm just saying not everyone could do it all at once. If you can't then do it that way. Sure costs a little more in the end, but you broke it up into pieces you could afford.


    Also, for some reason you sound so angry lol

  10. #20
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    You know, really and truly, this is the repair that BMW should do in a recall! My car new was a grunt over $50k and I would expect better from them. I think the bean counters must have cut some of the cost in the design and engineering of the E46 as this is the only chassis I know of with this problem!

    2013 Camaro 2SS The Wife's!
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