Will a ZHP ever become a valuable classic car?

[bimmerteknik]

I think there will always be a niche group of buyers who are willing to pay more for a ZHP, how much more? IDK.

At some point a younger generation will discover/value it and turn the ZHP into the hipster equivalent of a performance car. They’ll say “oh you didn’t know???” And sound educated of a small lapse in time where BMW marketing responded to the demand of enthusiast for a 4 door sports sedan when there was none.

Oh wait haha we might already be there. 🤣

But seriously, owners control the market right?


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[joeybananaz18]

I think prices will plateau and start to rise a bit for rarer colors and go up a bit more for lower miles. I think as BMWs become more "digital", demand for their more "analog" cars will increase, if you catch my drift. Take a look at what BMW has turned into. There's no such thing as a naturally aspirated straight 6 sedan anymore- and that was their wheelhouse. Everything is turbocharged, manuals are going the way of the dodo bird and while some of them are striking (i.e. new 5er), none of them are pretty cars. Design-wise Id say cars the period from 1996 (birth of the z3) to 2006 (end of the e46) will always be in demand. I might even shorten that to 2003 (last year for the e39). Performance-wise that decade a filled with great drivers.
I think the ZHP is a gem. Not just because its it looks and drives great, but because it was from a time when the company was great.

[dpark]

Great responses. Thanks.

I love my ZHP. It is my daily driver and I want nothing else. I have driven more recent 3-series and they do nothing for me. To "electronic" for my tastes and very little "feel" for the driver. I do like the modern infotainment systems, but it isn't enough to make me want to switch to something newer. I installed bluetooth and an ipod interface so I have basic technology covered. And I mount my iphone on the windshield for Waze. Really nothing else I need.

However at some point I wonder if financially it is just smarter to get a new car. This year in PDX you could get a brand new 320i for $199/month on a 24 month lease. I think it was also like $2.5K down. But even still, that is a pretty small monthly nut for a car that all you have to do is put gas in it. The warranty covers everything else from a maintenance perspective and you probably won't even need to buy tires before the lease is over.

At what point does the pleasure of driving a ZHP get outweighed by ongoing costs? Certainly my heated seats won't last forever and I really use them in the winter. My window lifts will eventually go (still on my original motors there after 14 years) etc. etc.

Short of major issues, I will probably drive mine until the motor needs to be rebuilt/replaced. Already did the whole cooling system thing. Would be nice if there would be a better ROI for dropping in a new motor at 250K miles. Well, I guess I will cross that bridge when I get to it...

[joeybananaz18]

M54s don't really cost as much as the M3s s54, so you could potentially find a low-milage parts car and just swap in the motor. You'd probably get your money back and if you decide you don't want to part ways with it, you'll at least have a added some more years to the cars life.
in regards to newer BMWs, although newer, replacing a ZHP with a 320i <i think> is one step forwards two steps backwards. You get an updated design but probably lose so much of the drive and feel that you've become used to. If i didn't get the ZHP i would have gone with a 2006 330i. Some on here actually talked me into the ZHP citing the light<er>weight feel of it. But when it's time to upgrade my zhp, if i want to say with a BMW ill go find one of those, or if i want to venture out grab an AR Giulia, which apparently gives a similar feel to the ZHP.

[Oli77]

Was dreaming I guess. Don't even have a zhp and was thinking all you guys would be driving $50k cars well maintained soon. Call me an optimist {today}.

[johnrando]

With so many E46s out there, and the ZHP performance bump not that much, not sure there us enough in the package, although wonderful, to really send this car into the rarified air for pricing. Hoping they do keep some good value for current owners though.

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[holyc0w]

I think prices will plateau and start to rise a bit for rarer colors and go up a bit more for lower miles. I think as BMWs become more "digital", demand for their more "analog" cars will increase, if you catch my drift. Take a look at what BMW has turned into. There's no such thing as a naturally aspirated straight 6 sedan anymore- and that was their wheelhouse. Everything is turbocharged, manuals are going the way of the dodo bird and while some of them are striking (i.e. new 5er), none of them are pretty cars. Design-wise Id say cars the period from 1996 (birth of the z3) to 2006 (end of the e46) will always be in demand. I might even shorten that to 2003 (last year for the e39). Performance-wise that decade a filled with great drivers.
I think the ZHP is a gem. Not just because its it looks and drives great, but because it was from a time when the company was great.

Thinking the same

It won't skyrocket, but I think it might benefit from an increase in demand for a more pure or "classic" driving experience. When all the new cars will be electric, hydrogen, or turbo 2 cylinders there might be a niche for these cars.

[daytona90t]

I think my ZHP is already my modern classic car. I bought my ZHP five years ago and at the time it was replacing my 1991 Alfa 164 as my daily driver. Getting into a rear drive inline 6 with 50/50 weight distribution was like stepping forward multiple generations in automotive handling and dynamics from the Alfa. This in a car that was in absolutely stock form and bettered the Alfa in ever aspect, when I had rebuilt and lowered the entire Alfa suspension with a B&G, Koni, Eibach set up, was the most exciting aspect of the car. The ZHP really is just about close to perfection in stock form. Of course over the years I have also rebuilt the entire ZHP suspension and even added a few M3 goodies and thicker sway bars.

At 110,000 miles I am fortunate enough to have been able to retire the ZHP from daily driver duties and keep it as my project and car show car. I replaced it with a 2013 X1 35i M-Sport. While the X1 is a blast to drive with the 300 horse N55 and X-drive that keeps it firmly planted and is arguably a much better, more modern, and more utilitarian daily driver, it is just not as enjoyable to drive as the ZHP. Honestly, I don't really care what the eventual value of the car is $0 or $100,000 as long as parts, support, and a great community continue to be available I plan on keeping it for my own enjoyment.

[slater]

However at some point I wonder if financially it is just smarter to get a new car. This year in PDX you could get a brand new 320i for $199/month on a 24 month lease. I think it was also like $2.5K down. But even still, that is a pretty small monthly nut for a car that all you have to do is put gas in it. The warranty covers everything else from a maintenance perspective and you probably won't even need to buy tires before the lease is over.

At what point does the pleasure of driving a ZHP get outweighed by ongoing costs? Certainly my heated seats won't last forever and I really use them in the winter. My window lifts will eventually go (still on my original motors there after 14 years) etc. etc.

i see where you're coming from here, but really, window regulator + motors are so cheap and easy to replace - heck, buy some spares now to hang onto - that it's not really worth mentioning. same with seats - people are parting out E46s all the time... find a good spare set. heck, find some M3 seats! 5 bolts, an electrical connector and 10min of your time and you can swap a seat.

the new vs old car debate: i've been down this road a lot, trying to gauge ongoing costs of keeping an older car vs payments for a newer car. it's always dependent on which car you own and how well it's been maintained, but for me, owning an E46 is always cheaper in the long run. and would it be as nice to own and drive - both short- and long-term - that new 320i? no. well, no in my opinion. smiles per mile, for me, always outweighs cost savings.

if you're part of a 2-car household, like i am, then the answer most likely lies in you driving the older car, and your wife/s.o. driving the new(er) car. i love the ZHPs' balance of the chassis and the balance of power/reliability. you can add modern conveniences (BT, NAV, etc) and there you go. i live in a harsh climate and drive mine year-round and it just delivers.... every day. have i had issues? sure. new cars have issues too. but i know my car inside and out (literally have R&R'd almost every bolt/nut on it over the last year - and i know that type of vehicle ownership is not for everyone... but it's just how i roll, bruh!), and i would drive it anywhere. as for the new(er) car, we're still considering a 2018 VW Golf Alltrack 6-speed for my wife. for a modern car, it's actually pretty nice. it has decent driving dynamics, even compared to the E46. it still feels a little cheaper, notably in the suspension, which seems odd compared to a 13-year old E46. but would i rather drive my ZHP(T) and deal with old car upkeep, or a new Golf Alltrack and have a warranty and a $500/month car payment? for me, ZHP(T). for my wife - leaning towards Golf Alltrack.

every car is a compromise; you just need to find your balance.




(frig. i should trademark that.)

[dpark]

I get the whole "compromise" thing on the old vs. new car. I still love my ZHP and after 14 years, finally gave her a pair of winter shoes (which really make a difference even over the Conti DSWs which I had before).

If I knew the car would only cost say $1000/year in maintenance and it remained reliable, I would keep it forever. My concern is that while it has been trouble free for the past 6 years (2012 was a bad year for many things needing replacement), I'm not gonna be happy if the car starts costing $3K+ a year to maintain.

I've already done the whole cooling thing so at my mileage rate probably good for another 9 years (didn't do it until the car was 13 years old and the expansion tank still looked good), but in that same timeframe probably doing to need a new clutch and rebuild/replace the motor as the major costs.

I just hope the little stuff (FCABs, RTABs, window regulators, zenon headlights etc.) don't start to make it a bigger pain that it is worth.

I've seen the Mango thread about what needs to be done to keep an E46 humming along, and everything has been done except the CCV and the throttle body intake boots (my indy mechanic says I don't have a vacuum leak so don't bother until it does since nothing fatal will happen).

I guess we all keep our ZHPs because we love them, even though they are nothing more than a sink hole over time (hopefully a small one).