Materials to Maintain Your ZHP IIIII Hand Protection IIIII Tools to Maintain Your ZHP
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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.er View Post
    According to my alignment sheet, I started off with -0.2 and -0.7 deg on the left and right sides respectively. Then used my phone + piece of wood as a straight edge to record the deltas, which were – 2.0 deg and -1.8 deg respectively. So that would be a total of -2.2 deg and -2.5 deg total, though I don’t think stock adjustment can accommodate that much.]
    Was the wood on the tire or wheel face? Something gave you excessive numbers. There's no way you moved the camber that much with that little adjustment.

    I actually extended the adjustment slots by 5mm and was still only able to get to -1.5deg

    My tires looked a bit like yours after my first track day. You really want -2.5 or more on these cars (which will require camber plates or e36 m3 strut mounts). This is a good resource that I endorse: http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/align.html

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    879
    I was able to get to -2° on a slammed car without the strut pin. If you are on stock springs, I'm guessing you'll be somewhere in the -1° range with just the pins removed. I still have ZHPizza's E36 mounts. Waiting on getting my new Spring/Shock setup before installing them. Excited to see where camber ends up with those, especially since I'll be raising the car again.
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  3. #53
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SF Bay, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZHPizza View Post
    Was the wood on the tire or wheel face? Something gave you excessive numbers. There's no way you moved the camber that much with that little adjustment.

    I actually extended the adjustment slots by 5mm and was still only able to get to -1.5deg

    My tires looked a bit like yours after my first track day. You really want -2.5 or more on these cars (which will require camber plates or e36 m3 strut mounts). This is a good resource that I endorse: http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/align.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Galapolis View Post
    I was able to get to -2° on a slammed car without the strut pin. If you are on stock springs, I'm guessing you'll be somewhere in the -1° range with just the pins removed. I still have ZHPizza's E36 mounts. Waiting on getting my new Spring/Shock setup before installing them. Excited to see where camber ends up with those, especially since I'll be raising the car again.
    Yeah, I was pretty suspicious of the numbers I was getting. Measured to the outside sidewall of the tire, which isn't the most accurate, but I didn't have a piece of wood (which was a wooden snowbrush/ice scraper) short enough to fit on the rim. After some reading I'm probably closer to -1 deg as I'm at stock ride height.

    I actually whipped up a set of fixed camber plates in CAD and was thinking of making them once school re-opens, as I'd have access to the machine shop and waterjet:



    My issue with fixed camber plates and E36 M3 strut mounts is that my car is still my daily, and I'm not sure about inner tire wear. Perhaps without much toe, it's not a huge issue? My plan with the fixed camber plates was instead of hammering out the studs on the stock strut mount & using regular nuts, I'd hammer the studs out, drill out to 10.5 mm, and use press-in nuts. That way I can remove the camber plate, and mount the strut mount with bolts on its own, if I was planning on putting a bunch of mileage on my car between events.
    2004 BMW 330CI ZHP (well, technically ZAM)


  4. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
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    879
    Adjustable camber plates might be worth considering for your situation, even if they are quite pricey. That being said, I still got excessive outer wear on -2°, and it's not like I go to the mountains THAT often. I think -2.5° for a mixture of street/track should do just fine in terms of wear.
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  5. #55
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    Nov 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galapolis View Post
    Adjustable camber plates might be worth considering for your situation, even if they are quite pricey. That being said, I still got excessive outer wear on -2°, and it's not like I go to the mountains THAT often. I think -2.5° for a mixture of street/track should do just fine in terms of wear.
    Preach it

    -2.5° and 0 toe in front

    This is the way

  6. #56
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    Nov 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.er View Post
    Yeah, I was pretty suspicious of the numbers I was getting. Measured to the outside sidewall of the tire, which isn't the most accurate, but I didn't have a piece of wood (which was a wooden snowbrush/ice scraper) short enough to fit on the rim. After some reading I'm probably closer to -1 deg as I'm at stock ride height.

    I actually whipped up a set of fixed camber plates in CAD and was thinking of making them once school re-opens, as I'd have access to the machine shop and waterjet:



    My issue with fixed camber plates and E36 M3 strut mounts is that my car is still my daily, and I'm not sure about inner tire wear. Perhaps without much toe, it's not a huge issue? My plan with the fixed camber plates was instead of hammering out the studs on the stock strut mount & using regular nuts, I'd hammer the studs out, drill out to 10.5 mm, and use press-in nuts. That way I can remove the camber plate, and mount the strut mount with bolts on its own, if I was planning on putting a bunch of mileage on my car between events.
    That makes sense - measuring on the tire will add extra camber due to the lower sidewall bulging under the weight of the car. -1.0 is probably right on as I beleive that's where I was able to get without the alignment pins. I'm also at stock ride height, so I can confirm that you can get to -1.5 if you grind out your slots 5mm more (I did this in 2018 and just found the pics).

    I'm actually planning to use the e36 M3 strut mounts BECAUSE my car is a daily since they give you the extra camber and caster while retaining some rubber damping between the strut and body.

    I'm even thinking of making them adjustable in a way -- hair brained idea below:
    - Install them in the middle of the adjustment slot (since my slots are extended, that gives me +/- 0.5deg to work with)
    - Current camber is n. Get an alignment at n camber, zero toe
    - Raise front of car, loosen nuts, slide struts out all the way out = [minimum] n+0.5deg camber, + toe in
    - Raise front of car, loosen nuts, slide struts all the way in = [maximum] camber at n-0.5deg, + toe out

    I say maybe because I don't think that the toe will change with the camber on these cars but I could be wrong

    The guy at the link below estimated that n would be around -2.9deg for me (middle of my slot is roughly -1.0 right now), so if that's the case, then I would have these adjustments:
    Street (out): -2.4, slight toe in
    Track (middle): -2.9, zero toe
    Autox (in): -3.4, slight toe out

    Could even extend the slots the other way and try to get under -2.0 for the street. Man, I can't wait to get these things installed and see where it sits!

    https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...ution.1261039/

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZHPizza View Post
    I say maybe because I don't think that the toe will change with the camber on these cars but I could be wrong
    I can confirm it does. Watched it change when the mechanic changed camber on the alignment rack.
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  8. #58
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    Nov 2016
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galapolis View Post
    I can confirm it does. Watched it change when the mechanic changed camber on the alignment rack.
    Oops I meant to delete that part after I looked at the suspension geometry and googled around

    I'm hoping it's slight enough to get away with changes like I'm thinking

  9. #59
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    May 2020
    Location
    SF Bay, CA
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    Huh, those E36 M3 mounts sound pretty nifty. Seems like after slotting the strut towers it can reach perhaps 50% of the adjustment range of a true adjustable camber plate, with the neutral point closer to the sweet spot for events. I might be buying a set of used GC street plates, but if I don't end up with those I will either have to add the E36 mounts to the next order when I head to the US (which is scheduled for October) or keep an eye out for a cheap set locally here in Canadia.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZHPizza View Post
    Oops I meant to delete that part after I looked at the suspension geometry and googled around

    I'm hoping it's slight enough to get away with changes like I'm thinking
    Yeah with the tie rod fixed and being in front you get toe-out with moving the strut in. But it seems like the E36 mounts add a decent amount of caster as well, so you may not have to run as much extra negative. I guess you'll just have to see how it is when you get on an alignment rack
    2004 BMW 330CI ZHP (well, technically ZAM)


  10. #60
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SF Bay, CA
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    1,266
    A week after, I had an appointment to get the front 2 Contis replaced, and 4 Hankook RS4s installed on my winter rims. Of course, at this point it would be prudent not to take my wheels off for their annual cleaning & re-waxing.


    Geez look at that camber wear:





    A few days prior I realized the brake pad sensor wire was also touching the inner barrel of the wheel in front, as there was not much caliper clearance with the 17s. Unfortunately this meant that the barrel was marred about its circumference. Not a huge deal, but still sucks when the rims are basically mint:








    Therefore, I decided to leave the sensor plugged in, but zip-tied it out of the way. Also did the same in the rear, though there was no issue there. Psssssh brake pad wear sensors… who needs em? My eyes are the sensors:





    At this point I also inspected the brakes, and dear god… I used up about 40-50% of the Hawk HPS pad in the front left. Front right has slightly more material, the rears are of course fine. When it comes time to replace them, I’ll have new pads shipped to a UPS/Fedex store in Buffalo, NY and will swap the pads in the parking lot. Then re-send the old ones back immediately, before crossing back into Canada and driving home. Thank god for FCP warranty! Going forwards I may need to think about a track pad, but then that just adds hassle if I had to swap pads AND tires for each event:





    Pulled all wheels out for cleaning:





    Of course, a few stubborn brake deposits aside, the street set cleaned up real nice and easy:





    I knew the winter set was going to be bad, so I bought Autoglym’s Custom Wheel Cleaner. I was going to clean them pretty thoroughly, but quickly noped out of there when I saw the barrel. Instead, I just cleaned the face and rim of the wheel. No big deal, these rims weren’t in the best shape to start anyways, and they’re only going to get showered in brake dust at the track:





    I left the car on stands overnight. The next day, I got the tires installed. The RS4s are some pretty meaty bois:








    The Contis:





    The camber wear is pretty apparent:





    Since this is the first set of rims I really care about, I had to deal with removing the old wheel weight tape. Tried wheel cleaner, IPA, WD-40, a razor blade… in the end, brake cleaner cut through the residue like a hot knife through butter. I also used it to remove any remaining brake dust deposits:








    Then I coated all of my street wheels with Poorboy’s wheel sealant, and the tires in Autoglym Instant Tire Dressing. The pic below makes it look a lot more shiny than it actually is. I guess we’ll see how long it lasts:


    2004 BMW 330CI ZHP (well, technically ZAM)


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