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Thread: CL imola red 2004 100k 6 speed

  1. #31
    2003 BMW 330 ZHPs For Sale
    2004 BMW 330 ZHPs For Sale
    2005 BMW 330 ZHPs For Sale
    2006 BMW 330 ZHPs For Sale
    Yeah, I would've tried regular Koni yellows myself but so many are going to FSD that's what the owner did. I'm sure the yellows are good too I'm just in love the with my current Mystic ZHP with Sachs Super Touring. I refreshed them in 2013 around 40K miles ago and they are so reassuring. I find myself going faster around many sections than my 1M because the that one is so reassuring whereas the 1M is less reassuring. I was just pretty dissapointed with the FSDs because I really, truly wanted to like them since they are brand new and was hoping not to have to change them.

    Anyway there is a lot of positive comments on the FSDs and I can say that they are a little less harsh than the super touring on bad roads but it takes so much enjoyment away for me in the twisties that it's not worth it.... for me. I am so happy with the Sachs but good to know that Koni has a viable option if Sachs quit making them.

  2. #32
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    Dec 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    Just owning two stock ZHPs and driving them side by side makes things stand out more. The SuperTouring is the bomb.
    Have you tried the Sachs Advantage?

    Curious to find out how it compares to Super Tourings.

    EDIT: I think you are misunderstanding something. You seem to be under the impression that Sachs doesn't make MTech dampers (red sticker) anymore. That is not totally true. The front MTech dampers still exist. I bought a set a few days ago. The rears, like you said, have been combined with sport package and are one part number now (Super Touring). That's why I ordered E36 M3 Sachs rear shocks as an alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    I hope they used the ZHP valving not other way around
    In case you didn't see my post on page 2, they didn't use either valving. ZF created a new valving that is 30% softer than the old MTech rear dampers. The fronts *should* be identical to the MTech dampers from 20 years ago though.

    If your ZHP came with blue stickers on the shocks, I fear ZHPs never came with MTech dampers to begin with. The MTech dampers (Boge/Advantage) have ALWAYS had red stickers. The contemporary/latest front MTech dampers still have that red sticker. The rears, as has been said many times, are now Super Touring with a white sticker (which probably stands for combined/all-in-one).
    Last edited by Galapolis; 08-13-2020 at 05:23 PM.
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  3. #33

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Galapolis View Post
    Have you tried the Sachs Advantage?

    Curious to find out how it compares to Super Tourings.

    EDIT: I think you are misunderstanding something. You seem to be under the impression that Sachs doesn't make MTech dampers (red sticker) anymore. That is not totally true. The front MTech dampers still exist. I bought a set a few days ago. The rears, like you said, have been combined with sport package and are one part number now (Super Touring). That's why I ordered E36 M3 Sachs rear shocks as an alternative.



    In case you didn't see my post on page 2, they didn't use either valving. ZF created a new valving that is 30% softer than the old MTech rear dampers. The fronts *should* be identical to the MTech dampers from 20 years ago though.

    If your ZHP came with blue stickers on the shocks, I fear ZHPs never came with MTech dampers to begin with. The MTech dampers (Boge/Advantage) have ALWAYS had red stickers. The contemporary/latest front MTech dampers still have that red sticker. The rears, as has been said many times, is now Super Touring with a white sticker.
    Yeah, my original post said there WAS a bespoke set but I couldn't find the proof. Then I realized that mine has the super tourings as well which I love so I assumed I was wrong and there were never different ones. Also I thought you said the sport and ZHP were the same so I was giving up and agreeing to it. I also checked the current part numbers and BMW lists the same for sports and ZHP but that list changes sometimes. Anyway, they don't make the MTech specific ones as far as I can tell only the blue sticker. Which is OK too because it is really good and I can live with those. I would love to find the MTechs but I am very happy with the blue ones. Not happy with the FSDs though.

    Really cool of you guys to dive into this with me. We can all choose the different ones but I think as a ZHP forum we should get the correct story.

    I also wrote to ZF and if I hear anything I will update everyone.

    Thank you.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    Anyway, they don't make the MTech specific ones as far as I can tell only the blue sticker. Which is OK too because it is really good and I can live with those. I would love to find the MTechs but I am very happy with the blue ones. Not happy with the FSDs though.
    I think you keep missing the important parts of my post. I'm going to highlight the following part:


    ***START MESSAGE FOR USER NACHOB***

    I found the MTech dampers. The red sticker still exists. Granted, only the fronts, but you can still buy them. I linked them in my recent thread and here on page 2.

    ***END MESSAGE FOR USER NACHOB***



    Now whether the ZHP came with those (or rather their Boge predecessors) from factory is a different matter. There is a lot of debate about what dampers came on M package cars in the German forums as well.

    As for proof, to me the mere existence of the red sticker Sachs Advantage (and previously Boge Turbo) for our cars is a pretty obvious sign that some E46s came with special MTech dampers. The question is which trims/packages/years/models received them?

    If ZHPs came with the blue sticker, then I don't know which trims in America came with the red sticker. I could not find definite "proof" that European M package cars came with the red sticker MTech dampers, but in this video the guy appears to have pulled red sticker shocks from his E46 to replace the top hats. I can't tell what package his car has. On second glance it looks like MTech I (sport package prefacelift???). So this means:

    - Pre-facelift sport package cars received MTech dampers. (True according to BMW part number lists/compatibility filters, although on a side note, the red stickers also listed as compatible for M Sport package II on FCP, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those cars came with MTech dampers from factory, only that they are compatible. It also suggests that European M package cars got MTech dampers but not the ZHP, because the ZHP is the Performance Package, not M Sport, but this might just be a generalization or error/inaccuracy in naming so I wouldn't read too much into it.)

    - ZHPs received Super Touring.

    - M package received probably Super Touring? Maybe MTech? The answer is unclear on this one.


    It makes some sense though. The M package and ZHP package only arrived later in the lifecycle of the E46 (can't remember the exact dates but I think M package started in late 2001 or early 2002 and ZHP started sometime 2003). So we are talking about different trims available for different years.

    Now, early E46s (1998, 1999) were criticized for being "soft". In response, BMW (according to internal memos) upgraded the dampers sometime in 2000. This is probably when the sport package received the MTech dampers. The sport package E46 was available in America at this time as well (mid 2000), which is probably why the red sticker dampers are available in the US even today. They are spare parts meant for those very specific 2000/2001 sport package cars that received the upgraded suspension in response to the criticism.

    MY SPECULATION (I have no proof) is that the E46 as a whole was never meant to get red sticker/high performance dampers, BUT, in order to appease critics in a time BEFORE a dedicated performance package (ZHP, M Technik II) existed, BMW decided to TEMPORARILY equip the sportier trims with the fabled MTech dampers (red sticker).

    Then, when they released the M package and later ZHP, they offered re-engineered Super Touring line shocks that were more in line with BMWs original vision for the E46, offering better comfort than the red sticker and higher performance than the old softer shocks that people criticized. But because a bunch of E46s were now out there in the world with red sticker dampers, Sachs would of course have to continue providing spare parts for them, hence why we can still buy red sticker MTech dampers.

    I'm sure Sachs isn't too happy about all this complication, which MIGHT explain why they tried to combine shocks and recently did exactly that with the MTech rears, merging them with the Super Touring rears to create one part to replace both the old red sticker rears and blue sticker rears. There is now only one white sticker rear.

    At the end of the day, I don't know how long BMW used the MTech dampers and if they really were only available on certain 2000/2001 models or if some later cars received them too. But I have one final funny thought: Ever wondered why we call the red sticker Sachs "MTech" dampers? Maybe it's because they came on cars with the MTech I body kit? Wouldn't that tie my theory together nicely? Still only speculation, but the takeaway here is:


    MTech dampers are real.

    Some E46s had MTech dampers.

    You can still buy the front MTech dampers right here.
    Last edited by Galapolis; 08-13-2020 at 06:22 PM.
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Galapolis View Post
    I think you keep missing the important parts of my post. I'm going to highlight the following part:


    ***START MESSAGE FOR USER NACHOB***

    I found the MTech dampers. The red sticker still exists. Granted, only the fronts, but you can still buy them. I linked them in my recent thread and here on page 2.

    ***END MESSAGE FOR USER NACHOB***




    Now whether the ZHP came with those (or rather their Boge predecessors) from factory is a different matter. There is a lot of debate about what dampers came on M package cars in the German forums as well.

    As for proof, to me the mere existence of the red sticker Sachs Advantage (and previously Boge Turbo) for our cars is a pretty obvious sign that some E46s came with special MTech dampers. The question is which trims/packages/years/models received them?

    If ZHPs came with the blue sticker, then I don't know which trims in America came with the red sticker. I could not find definite "proof" that European M package cars came with the red sticker MTech dampers, but in this video the guy appears to have pulled red sticker shocks from his E46 to replace the top hats. I can't tell what package his car has. On second glance it looks like MTech I (sport package prefacelift???). So this means:

    - Pre-facelift sport package cars received MTech dampers. (True according to BMW part number lists/compatibility filters, although on a side note, the red stickers also listed as compatible for M Sport package II on FCP, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those cars came with MTech dampers from factory, only that they are compatible. It also suggests that European M package cars got MTech dampers but not the ZHP, because the ZHP is the Performance Package, not M Sport, but this might just be a generalization or error/inaccuracy in naming so I wouldn't read too much into it.)

    - ZHPs received Super Touring.

    - M package received probably Super Touring? Maybe MTech? The answer is unclear on this one.


    It makes some sense though. The M package and ZHP package only arrived later in the lifecycle of the E46 (can't remember the exact dates but I think M package started in late 2001 or early 2002 and ZHP started sometime 2003). So we are talking about different trims available for different years.

    Now, early E46s (1998, 1999) were criticized for being "soft". In response, BMW (according to internal memos) upgraded the dampers sometime in 2000. This is probably when the sport package received the MTech dampers. The sport package E46 was available in America at this time as well (mid 2000), which is probably why the red sticker dampers are available in the US even today. They are spare parts meant for those very specific 2000/2001 sport package cars that received the upgraded suspension in response to the criticism.

    MY SPECULATION (I have no proof) is that the E46 as a whole was never meant to get red sticker/high performance dampers, BUT, in order to appease critics in a time BEFORE a dedicated performance package (ZHP, M Technik II) existed, BMW decided to TEMPORARILY equip the sportier trims with the fabled MTech dampers (red sticker).

    Then, when they released the M package and later ZHP, they offered re-engineered Super Touring line shocks that were more in line with BMWs original vision for the E46, offering better comfort than the red sticker and higher performance than the old softer shocks that people criticized. But because a bunch of E46s were now out there in the world with red sticker dampers, Sachs would of course have to continue providing spare parts for them, hence why we can still buy red sticker MTech dampers.

    I'm sure Sachs isn't too happy about all this complication, which MIGHT explain why they tried to combine shocks and recently did exactly that with the MTech rears, merging them with the Super Touring rears to create one part to replace both the old red sticker rears and blue sticker rears. There is now only one white sticker rear.

    At the end of the day, I don't know how long BMW used the MTech dampers and if they really were only available on certain 2000/2001 models or if some later cars received them too. But I have one final funny thought: Ever wondered why we call the red sticker Sachs "MTech" dampers? Maybe it's because they came on cars with the MTech I body kit? Wouldn't that tie my theory together nicely? Still only speculation, but the takeaway here is:


    MTech dampers are real.

    Some E46s had MTech dampers.

    You can still buy the front MTech dampers right here.
    We need to get together and have a beer some day!. Nice to see someone else as obsessive as me about this stuff!

    I'm still confused a but here are two things that are clear for me. I am very happy and impressed with the super-touring Sachs. The FSD Koni are too floaty for a ZHP. I think if I rip out the FSDs from the new ZHP I just got and can't figure out the matching ZHP Sachs parts, I will go with SuperTouring again because as I mentioned I love them and I don't risk getting a mismatched set or something to stiff. I already have a 1M that is really stiff on the terrible SoCal roads.

    The other thing I have learned from this is that if poeple only drove a ZHP with the FSDs or bad suspension, they don't understand the magic. My Blue ZHP is refreshed and really tight and I remember commenting how impressed I was by it on the 1 series forum and another member said he drove a ZHP once and wasn't impressed. I thought that's weird but now I see. If someone only drove something like the Red one with soft floaty FSD they wouldn't be impressed and the strength of my conviction comes from the fact that I have two refreshed suspension ZHPs in my driveway right now, one with Sachs Super Touring and one with Koni FSD that I can compare side by side and it's no contest. My son just go his driving license and I'm teaching him to drive manual. He drove with me from Oregon to San Diego to bring the red one home. He knows very little about cars and he commented on his own how the blue one just turns in when he thinks about it and the Red one seems a little slower.

    Anyway, thanks again for sharing all of this info. We should do a SoCal ZHP meet some day when all of this is over.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NachoB View Post
    I think if I rip out the FSDs from the new ZHP I just got and can't figure out the matching ZHP Sachs parts, I will go with SuperTouring again because as I mentioned I love them and I don't risk getting a mismatched set or something to stiff. I already have a 1M that is really stiff on the terrible SoCal roads.
    Like I mentioned in the other thread, that's not gonna happen.

    Super Tourings are no more. Sachs literally discontinued all their dampers, replacing all of them with white stickers.

    So there is no more Advantage and no more Super Touring. At this point, it also looks like the US never even got the MTech dampers to begin with. I think it was a Euro option only, or if the US did get them, they were only available on a limited run of sports package cars, but not the ZHP.

    There's still a lot of confusion. I should really delete that previous post, it's basically all useless with the new information I got today, but I'll leave it up for now.

    In any case, everyone gets the same white sticker part now. No more names which is weird for Sachs. I'm inclined to call them "Super Betrayals." Still looking forward to trying them out though. Also I'd be interested in more ZHP meetups. SoCal is a little far from me though.
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  7. #37
    Galapolis, can you give link and/or part numbers for these rear E36 M3 shocks you mention?

    Also...thanks to all parties for having a deep-dive conversation on what seems like minutia, without immediately turning it into a wiener-size competition. So refreshing to see these days, and why this forum is so great!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMBBS View Post
    Galapolis, can you give link and/or part numbers for these rear E36 M3 shocks you mention?

    Also...thanks to all parties for having a deep-dive conversation on what seems like minutia, without immediately turning it into a wiener-size competition. So refreshing to see these days, and why this forum is so great!
    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...m3-e36-290-816
    330i Base | Mysticblau | Slicktop | 6MT

  9. #39
    Gentlemen on a different matter, this car has a amazingly clean black leather interior with heated seats and folding rear seat. I am thinking of putting alacantara interior in it. What do you think a black all leather no rip not cracked leather interior would fetch? Any thoughts?

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