Materials to Maintain Your ZHP IIIII Hand Protection IIIII Tools to Maintain Your ZHP
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Englewood, NJ
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by AM1GO View Post
    It’s too late replying but if a cable stuck in the subframe pull it out from the inside and leave the subframe part in. Once you get it out it’s easier to deal with, heating with a torch or some penetrating fluid.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Posted it in my build thread but I got it out. Dont have a torch (I really need one), had to drill and continue to use penetrating fluid and then chisel a flathead in between the rubber sleeve and the subframe sleeve.

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    I just ordered an epoxy/rivet vincebar kit. I will be doing that instead of the weld-in options. I tried finding some local welders and the rates I got were ridiculous, basically the "I dont really know if I want to weld inside your garage" price. With the epoxy/rivet kit I can do it fully at home with an epoxy and rivet gun. Slater on here looks like he did the install and Vince released a 3 part video recently on his youtube channel.


    I do have some small cracks on the rear left and right front mounts:

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    Vince said I should be able to stop-drill and spot weld them. (More welding, ugh). He has his vinceskinz kit but he said I cant get one til November because of backorders.

    I'll keep asking around. I asked someone on craigslist to do those two cracks for me and he quoted me $500. I don't weld but that sounds ridiculous. The vinceskinz are $500 shipped for that Id rather wait.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SF Bay, CA
    Posts
    1,138
    Total deja vu moment with my car from the stuck cables to the crack in the same location and the epoxy vincebar haha.

    I've never used one but what if you bought a cheap 120V welder from Harbour Freight for those small cracks? Certainly beats $500. Or, maybe there are welder rentals on craigslist
    2004 BMW 330CI ZHP (well, technically ZAM)


  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SF Bay
    Posts
    577
    I too have pondered about the subframe floor for far too long. I personally believe that non-M power and some auto-x is fine with some plates welded in on the bottom and calling it. Does anyone else find the Vince bar seriously expensive for what it is? I think last I asked it was nearly $900 to my door just for the rear mounts. I think it was even here, but it's not a very sophisticated design for what is a few bits of tubed metal welded together. It has a few pieces for aesthetics, but is otherwise a steel bar with some cut steel tube. I know you can say that about anything but you really could recreate it with your second try just measuring carefully.

    Someone mentioned a through bolt being better than mounting something on top of the subframe bolts. This is true. I had a long discussion with an engineer about this. I wanted to make something similar to the Vince bar and capitalize on a simple design that's easy to install. When I got an engineer on board, that's when I got the schpeal.

    On the other hand, CMP Engineering says that their design transfers to the loads to other parts. It also has gone through multiple revisions. They (he?) actually addressed the concerns of a full bolt through design, and mentioned that he was able to make it thinner and lighter while barely sacrificing rigidity. He also said that his new design isn't the right for most, but more than sufficient for someone who has a supercharged M3.

    Honestly, for someone to confidently say they've used less material and still held the same level of added strength, to me that implies someone who genuinely understands how much strength is actually needed for the floor. although a bolt-through would be stronger, CMP seems to have done the math and sees a non-bolt through solution sufficient for sub...say 600hp cars. It's at the right price point and was an insta buy for me.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Englewood, NJ
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    I too have pondered about the subframe floor for far too long. I personally believe that non-M power and some auto-x is fine with some plates welded in on the bottom and calling it. Does anyone else find the Vince bar seriously expensive for what it is? I think last I asked it was nearly $900 to my door just for the rear mounts. I think it was even here, but it's not a very sophisticated design for what is a few bits of tubed metal welded together. It has a few pieces for aesthetics, but is otherwise a steel bar with some cut steel tube. I know you can say that about anything but you really could recreate it with your second try just measuring carefully.

    Someone mentioned a through bolt being better than mounting something on top of the subframe bolts. This is true. I had a long discussion with an engineer about this. I wanted to make something similar to the Vince bar and capitalize on a simple design that's easy to install. When I got an engineer on board, that's when I got the schpeal.

    On the other hand, CMP Engineering says that their design transfers to the loads to other parts. It also has gone through multiple revisions. They (he?) actually addressed the concerns of a full bolt through design, and mentioned that he was able to make it thinner and lighter while barely sacrificing rigidity. He also said that his new design isn't the right for most, but more than sufficient for someone who has a supercharged M3.

    Honestly, for someone to confidently say they've used less material and still held the same level of added strength, to me that implies someone who genuinely understands how much strength is actually needed for the floor. although a bolt-through would be stronger, CMP seems to have done the math and sees a non-bolt through solution sufficient for sub...say 600hp cars. It's at the right price point and was an insta buy for me.
    The Vincebar was $690 for me with the rear mounts, front mounts, and tools needed shipped to me. The Sweden currency is a bit weak right now so that helps. It is a bit expensive I agree but I am factoring in labor cost here. I can do the epoxy kit myself. If I had a weld kit, Iíd have to put my car back together, take it to a shop, then theyíll disassemble, prep, weld, reassemble, itíll probably cost at least $2000.

    If I was having it done for me at the shop I would go CMP engineering plates and the new rear top brace. Both Vince and CMP are similar enough in their philosophy and design that I trust both. There is some contention with the front reinforcement design that Iíve seen on some forums but itís still pretty similar and consistent.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    3,114
    Found where I had posted my info on the subject:

    http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showt...302-It-Is-Time

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