What did you do for your ZHP/ BMW / MINI today? #2

[joeybananaz18]

You just closed a chapter... when I said goodbye to my Imola ZHP I did not know if I would ever be back in another ZHP. I'm now restoring a neglected Mysticblau ZHP so you never know...


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when the time comes for me to have a toy, this is the first place im coming.

[Rovert]

I said goodbye

But also be excited to say hello to new experiences and future memories! When one door closes another one opens. My ZHP helped me make some lifelong friends and the understanding of one another’s ZHP experiences.


Just brought my car into alignment after everything is settled.




Front: camber -1.3° per side, toe-out total 0.08°
Rear: camber -2.1° per side , toe-out total 0.25°

Steering feel is firm, closer to an M and turn-in is better than before prob because of OEM toe-in settings. We’ll see how rear toe out is like but so far no highway speed wandering in the ruts.

[ZHPizza]

@Rovert wait you have toe OUT? Front and rear? Wtf?

And that camber sucks too. Should have more in front, less in rear.

I hate everything about this alignment

[Galapolis]

Yeah I'm with the Pizza on this one, if you're looking for the drifties, get some camber or even better, caster plates in the front and max them. Then do 1° less camber in the back than the front, 0 toe front and whatever is stock for rear toe. Should work pretty well for most 3 series.

[Rovert]

I’m glad I put the specs down. I’m learning a bit as I go.

So out of the specs should I just have only about 0.5-1° of negative rear camber per side and just zero out rear toe? I haven’t had much seat time with current settings so I don’t know the behavior of the car at the limit yet. Am I setup for too much understeer? I’m thinking if in a corner the back has much angle to deal with traction so the front will lose traction ahead of the back? I was under the impression I’d be helping the car deal with the immense amount of torque being transmitted to the ground without losing traction on exit that I felt a lot before. But I’m starting to guess I’m wrong.

[Galapolis]

Less rear camber would mean more traction in a straight line. Not sure what your toe is doing, haven't seen anyone run toe out front and back before, at least not on a 3 series. My recommendation would be to find a way to get front camber to -2°. You could then do rear -1.2° or something. I would do stock rear toe (probably around 0.2° total, so 0.1° per side or whatever BMW specifies) and 0 toe front. It will feel more darty but it will give you that crisp turn in you are looking for. If you're not looking to buy camber plates or similar, I would just match camber front and back for now.

[Rovert]

For sure not looking to turn this car into a race car and snowballing the parts lost into an formula 1 mod list. LOL I’m just replacing parts as needed as I don’t intend to keep the car as long as I have owned E46s.

Front camber is maxed OEM by drilling out the pins on the top hat. So I’ll match the rear camber with the front then.

OEM spec front camber is -0.1° to -1.1° and OEM rear is -1.4° to -2.3°. That’s why I thought it was fine to have more camber in the rear.

What toe setting comes into play where the car will start tram-lining in the highway ruts? That is something for sure I don’t want happening since I’m sure it’ll make long distance road trips exhausting.

I’ll keep driving the car (since toe specs are still in the green) and just learning the characteristics of what has been done as a learning experience since real life can be better…or worse than specs on paper. Then I’ll make some tweaks after some road time. I’m just fortunate to have new found access to an alignment rack from a good friend.

[ZHPizza]

BMW puts less camber up front to force their cars to understeer to try to keep people out of the ditch. This is my favorite simple explanation of alignment settings on these cars - he teaches you the reasoning behind the different setups and basic street suggestions at the end.

http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/align.html

[t.er]

BMW puts less camber up front to force their cars to understeer to try to keep people out of the ditch. This is my favorite simple explanation of alignment settings on these cars - he teaches you the reasoning behind the different setups and basic street suggestions at the end.

http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/align.html

Yeah... never heard of anyone running toe out for both axles. +1 to that link being a very good guide.

I'd definitely dial out a bit of rear camber and toe, at your current settings you'd be wearing out the rear tires much quicker than the front for no good reason. I run like 0.1 deg total toe in for rear, and 0 toe up front.

One thing to consider with static front camber being higher than the rear is because with a MacPherson you get camber loss (going positive) with compression, whereas with double wishbone or multi-link rear, you usually get camber gain (going negative).

I guess Trevor see how it feels as-is, but if it wants to follow seams in the highway then you should probably get it re-aligned. I'm surprised it isn't tramlining with the current settings

[Rovert]

http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/align.html

Good stuff! Need to read more in-depth when not working.

One thing to consider with static front camber being higher than the rear is because with a MacPherson you get camber loss (going positive) with compression, whereas with double wishbone or multi-link rear, you usually get camber gain (going negative).

I guess Trevor see how it feels as-is, but if it wants to follow seams in the highway then you should probably get it re-aligned. I'm surprised it isn't tramlining with the current settings

Interesting to know about how front camber works on E90s! Thanks! Yeah I was on the highway and in the straights where the ruts are I just let the steering do its thing once I centred the direction and the car held totally normally without any jumping around. I just held the wheel lightly to keep it centred in the lane but no signs of instability up to 80mph so far. Then I took a hard right/2nd gear turn after the offramp with early throttle tip in thinking the toe out would rotate the vehicle or at least give me that feeling that the back is turning just before the front. It was met with solid tracking and putting down the torque 100%. I tried a 3rd gear corner and it was the same. I actually just about sh!t myself because of the speed I could carry in and through without drama to the chassis as I powered out into 4th gear. I'll keep playing around and next I need to see what it feels like in short and medium flow chicanes which I'll do on the weekend.

No matter if rear toe-in/out, the current setting is still 50% that of OEM maximum allowed. Not sure if that gives me more peace with tire wear as I test this setting for a bit!