What did you do for your ZHP/ BMW / MINI today? #2

[Prestovie]

Replaced my broken stock rear speakers with used Harman Kardon speakers from a junk yard car. Sounds much better. Even better I only paid $10 a piece for the speakers and the HK speaker covers. So I spent a total $30 for three of them. One more and I can swap out the front door speakers too.

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That’s a steal


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[t.er]

Well, I did get some good footage at the track:



Unfortunately, my front left tire now looks like this:



Definitely open to comments on driving since it was my first time out on track. But my real concern is with the tires - currently doing research on what I can do to minimize outer sidewall wear like this

[Rovert]

Definitely open to comments on driving since it was my first time out on track. But my real concern is with the tires - currently doing research on what I can do to minimize outer sidewall wear like this

How long were you on the track for (intervals) driving like in the video? And what tires are you on?

[704sw]

Definitely open to comments on driving since it was my first time out on track. But my real concern is with the tires - currently doing research on what I can do to minimize outer sidewall wear like this

It looks to me like you’re carrying too much speed into the corners. That’s why you’re fighting and making corrections mid-corner. It’s forcing you to give additional steering input and making you keep your steering input held all the way through the exit. Keeping weight transferred on the front as you’re understeering through the corner is just scrubbing that front outside tire across the asphalt. Also kinda looks your turn-in points are inconsistent.

Obviously it varies corner to corner, but ideally you should be able to give a single steering input, and then as soon as you reach the apex start opening the wheel and feeding it throttle as you track out to the exit curbing (even before the apex if it’s increasing radius). This is where autocross and track driving really differ—the longer distances mean the turns are less abrupt on the track, so the quick, jerky inputs often needed to navigate an autocross course don’t translate to a road course. Smooth, flowing, single inputs reign supreme.

Really good job turning your head and looking into/through the corners, though. I can tell you’re an experienced autocrosser.

What’s your camber up front? Assuming you were checking tire pressures after each session, what were they?

[Galapolis]

More negative camber would certainly help up front. I used to run -2° and still had heavy wear on the outer shoulder. Also, like Spenser said, you are carrying too much speed through the corners. The squealing tires are a pretty clear sign to me. There (ideally) shouldn't be any squealing.

How old are your tires? One of our family cars (Honda City) had Continentals and they didn't age very well. They were dry-rotting after only 3 years.

[Aethir30]

Something a lot of people have issues with is tire pressure. The tendency is to drop pressure for more contact patch, and that's right to an extent. What you want to make sure is that the shoulder isn't rolling over too much. It looks to me like you're running too low a pressure up front and where the sidewall meets the tread you're getting that separation.

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[t.er]

How long were you on the track for (intervals) driving like in the video? And what tires are you on?

This is something that I definitely made a mistake on. $158 CAD for open lapping from 10AM - 5PM, I ran ~60 laps, and around 8-10 lap stints on a 3 KM track. My mindset was "make the best use of my 7 hours there" so I ran as much as I could. Which obviously backfired - I felt I was driving better with the latter sessions, but was going 1-2 seconds slower, and I suspect that's due to overheating the tires and blistering them. Next time I'll be looking to do 5 laps maximum, including in/out laps to minimize roasting them.

It looks to me like you’re carrying too much speed into the corners. That’s why you’re fighting and making corrections mid-corner. It’s forcing you to give additional steering input and making you keep your steering input held all the way through the exit. Keeping weight transferred on the front as you’re understeering through the corner is just scrubbing that front outside tire across the asphalt. Also kinda looks your turn-in points are inconsistent.

Obviously it varies corner to corner, but ideally you should be able to give a single steering input, and then as soon as you reach the apex start opening the wheel and feeding it throttle as you track out to the exit curbing (even before the apex if it’s increasing radius). This is where autocross and track driving really differ—the longer distances mean the turns are less abrupt on the track, so the quick, jerky inputs often needed to navigate an autocross course don’t translate to a road course. Smooth, flowing, single inputs reign supreme.

Really good job turning your head and looking into/through the corners, though. I can tell you’re an experienced autocrosser.

What’s your camber up front? Assuming you were checking tire pressures after each session, what were they?

Yeah, coming from the world of autox I sort of just drove the same as I did on the track. Thanks for the advice! Yeah, lots of work I have to do on driver mod. Ideally I'd have someone more experienced to sit with me, but that might be hard given these times.

I started off with -0.2 and -0.7 up front (taken from alignment sheets) before I pushed the strut tops in all the way. Using my phone and piece of wood on the tire as a straight edge, I gained -2.0 and -1.8 deg on the left and right sides respectively. Not sure how accurate these measurements are though.

Tire pressures seemed really high. Tire pressures were 42 psi in front and 40 psi in rear. I set those based off chalking the tire, then seeing how much rollover I had on the sidewall. I'm thinking it might be because I was very aggressive with some of the curbs - perhaps I should've driven a few laps without using curbs, then re-checking the marks, and adjusting pressures accordingly.

More negative camber would certainly help up front. I used to run -2° and still had heavy wear on the outer shoulder. Also, like Spenser said, you are carrying too much speed through the corners. The squealing tires are a pretty clear sign to me. There (ideally) shouldn't be any squealing.

How old are your tires? One of our family cars (Honda City) had Continentals and they didn't age very well. They were dry-rotting after only 3 years.

Hmmm this is something I actually didn't consider until now, that may have been a contributing factor. The tires are dated from 2016, and I did notice a bit of minor dry-rot on the sidewall edge when I took it back out of storage last year. To address tire wear I may have to get camber plates, but ideally I was hoping to run my car as-is to get the most out of it with the current (basically stock) setup. Then start throwing parts at it after. But the car just seems to be so safely setup that it just plows from factory. Not enough negative camber, high roll gradients, and caster mean lots of positive camber in the corners. I guess putting parts on aside I'd just have to learn to steer better, and try not to oversteer into the corners.

Something a lot of people have issues with is tire pressure. The tendency is to drop pressure for more contact patch, and that's right to an extent. What you want to make sure is that the shoulder isn't rolling over too much. It looks to me like you're running too low a pressure up front and where the sidewall meets the tread you're getting that separation.

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The sidewalls did scrub earlier in the day, so I upped the pressures then re-chalked. As mentioned above I'm running what seems to be a very high pressure, but even when I autox'd these tires I've found they just don't have a stiff enough sidewall, and require high pressures to compensate.

[Aethir30]

Those tires are quite excellent rain tires for autox. But yeah they just don't have the right build for dry autox.

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[704sw]

Next time I'll be looking to do 5 laps maximum, including in/out laps to minimize roasting them.

We run 20-25 minute sessions in 95°F ambient/70% humidity full sun in late June at VIR and I’ve yet to see any serious tire degradation on other cars, even cars with regular street tires. As you increase seat time (especially if you get an instructor) you’ll be able to increase stint lengths without cooking the tires. They’ll start getting greasy but that’s when it really gets fun.

Yeah, coming from the world of autox I sort of just drove the same as I did on the track. Thanks for the advice! Yeah, lots of work I have to do on driver mod. Ideally I'd have someone more experienced to sit with me, but that might be hard given these times.

I started off with -0.2 and -0.7 up front (taken from alignment sheets) before I pushed the strut tops in all the way. Using my phone and piece of wood on the tire as a straight edge, I gained -2.0 and -1.8 deg on the left and right sides respectively. Not sure how accurate these measurements are though.

Tire pressures seemed really high. Tire pressures were 42 psi in front and 40 psi in rear. I set those based off chalking the tire, then seeing how much rollover I had on the sidewall. I'm thinking it might be because I was very aggressive with some of the curbs - perhaps I should've driven a few laps without using curbs, then re-checking the marks, and adjusting pressures accordingly.

I ran -1.8° up front for a while before I got the Turner fixed camber plates that I think are -3°. Even at -1.8° I never had serious shoulder wear, I just needed more camber to increase my speed as my skill level increased. I run 28psi cool pressure on the cast iron RS4 tires.

[t.er]

I ran -1.8° up front for a while before I got the Turner fixed camber plates that I think are -3°. Even at -1.8° I never had serious shoulder wear, I just needed more camber to increase my speed as my skill level increased. I run 28psi cool pressure on the cast iron RS4 tires.

That's good to hear. I might need camber plates in the future, but want to do driver mod with my car as-is before I start throwing parts at it. I have some friends with a lot more track experience (Ontario Time Attack) than me who are willing to ride the next time I go. And yes I'm getting some quotes for a set of RS4s - gonna take my winter setup which is almost up to the wear bars, and has just been sitting for 4 years. They're 17 x 8 so not ideal, but looking to throw a set of 245 RS4s on them to make a budget track setup.