What Would You Do

[Junior2552]

So, I set aside enough money to mod the ZHP this winter. Here's the problem: I bought my ZHP two years ago, and I still owe about $10k on her. I love this car. I love it with all of my being. I set aside enough money for an ESS TS2 supercharger setup (that I've mentioned on this board a few times), but now I'm stuck.

The ZHP has 78k on it. I baby it, and the only mods it has are coilovers and wheels. I wanted to spend the dough on that TS2 kit and have it be a fun sleeper, especially knowing that ESS has a reputation for reliability AND performance. But, I wasn't raised a dummy. Boosting a motor at 80k, no matter how well it has been taken care of has a better chance of being destructive than successful. My car needs some VANOS love, and some other small maintenance, and I don't want to mod a car that I owe on. If I blow it up....I'm paying for a car that I can't drive.

Here's my question: Would YOU spend the money on the ZHP, or (my other option), buy an E36 M3 and play with that. The E36 I can OWN cash-money. TRM makes a good turbo kit for it, VAC makes internals, and they are a significantly lighter car.

I am not anti either idea, but I'm leaning toward bolt-on modding the ZHP and buying an M3 that needs some love and taking my time putting it together the right way. Help?

[midlandtech]

I would personally keep the ZHP and bring it as close to mint as possible then buy a cheaper car (in your case the e36 m3) and go nuts with it.

[alexandre]

Use the saved-up cash to pay off the ZHP and save up again ? :dunno

[johnrando]

I would personally keep the ZHP and bring it as close to mint as possible then buy a cheaper car (in your case the e36 m3) and go nuts with it.

Lots of ways to go, but I like this suggestion.

[Vas]

I say pay it off. No car payment = mod money

[Junior2552]

Haha, so we're 2 and 2 on the mod vs pay-off suggestions. Here's my thought on that; I always buy a car, flip it/trade it in, move on. I found the ZHP and traded in a MINT 2009 GTI for it; that's how much I loved the ZHP. I've always owned BMWs and when I found a ZHP with lower miles, I had to trade "down" for it (in terms of year and worth). That being said, I have a lot of loans that get paid off very quickly for how much they are. My credit is phenomenal, but I would like to stay away from paying off ANOTHER loan within two years. I'd like to ride this one out full term and maybe refinance next year.

As far as mods go, it sounds like everybody is suggesting to stay the BMW purist route and then BUILD an S50/52 under the hood of an E36 M3. Best part is this: the ZHP sits in the garage, and the M3 would go next to it, and the E36 325i is going to sit outside. My neighbors must think I have a BMW hoarding problem. Now I need to trade in the CBR on an S1000rr :devilish

[danewilson77]

Dream scenario.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[az3579]

So, I set aside enough money to mod the ZHP this winter. Here's the problem: I bought my ZHP two years ago, and I still owe about $10k on her. I love this car. I love it with all of my being. I set aside enough money for an ESS TS2 supercharger setup (that I've mentioned on this board a few times), but now I'm stuck.

The ZHP has 78k on it. I baby it, and the only mods it has are coilovers and wheels. I wanted to spend the dough on that TS2 kit and have it be a fun sleeper, especially knowing that ESS has a reputation for reliability AND performance. But, I wasn't raised a dummy. Boosting a motor at 80k, no matter how well it has been taken care of has a better chance of being destructive than successful. My car needs some VANOS love, and some other small maintenance, and I don't want to mod a car that I owe on. If I blow it up....I'm paying for a car that I can't drive.

Here's my question: Would YOU spend the money on the ZHP, or (my other option), buy an E36 M3 and play with that. The E36 I can OWN cash-money. TRM makes a good turbo kit for it, VAC makes internals, and they are a significantly lighter car.

I am not anti either idea, but I'm leaning toward bolt-on modding the ZHP and buying an M3 that needs some love and taking my time putting it together the right way. Help?


Do this, IMO:


Use the saved-up cash to pay off the ZHP and save up again ? :dunno

Having no car payment really does equal mod money. Seriously.
And supercharging an 80k motor... you'll be fine, dude. Really. Granted, a rebuild is always an option if you're really that worried about it.

I can't wait to pay off my car so I could save up for big ticket mods and other things like a full respray...

[Junior2552]

Dream scenario.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

Haha, elaborate, Mr. Wilson? Do you also want an S1000rr? My scenario is simply a result of working a lot, a lot of blessings, and not spending money on other things. My friends want to go to the bar, I'm like, "that's $70 I could have spent on a ZHP shift knob..."

PS- You're in Ohio, too?! How are your sinuses doing with this weather, haha.

[danewilson77]

Sinuses are cool for now. I like the way you think.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[Junior2552]

Do this, IMO:



Having no car payment really does equal mod money. Seriously.
And supercharging an 80k motor... you'll be fine, dude. Really. Granted, a rebuild is always an option if you're really that worried about it.

I can't wait to pay off my car so I could save up for big ticket mods and other things like a full respray...

I definitely see what you're saying. But then, I have to spend $10,000, pay of the car, then re-save another $7,000 for my TS2 kit. Rebuilds ARE always an option, but rebuilding an M54 isn't as "rewarding" as rebuilding an S50. Supercharger kits get into the $10,000 range to make any kind of rebuild-worthy power. I know I'd be okay without rebuilding it, but I do love E36s and I don't want to take away from the ZHP by "overdoing" the mods, if that makes sense.

In retrospect, I would spend that amount of money anyway, just on two cars, not one. So, this is my internal debate. Haha.

[Junior2552]

Sinuses are cool for now. I like the way you think.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

Wait til this storm gets over your way. What a pain.

And hey, that's the only way to think if you truly love something. As of right now, I'm in my first year as a high school English teacher, and I do side work on a lot of German cars around here (people don't like dealer labor rates), and I bar tend at a local high-end place.

I just sent in an application to go BACK to school to get a certification to teach vocational; high-performance engine building. I should be grading papers, but I'm on this forum. I can't get rid of the bug, so it's the only way I think!

[KevinC]

I think you answered your own question. You "love" the ZHP. As it is, I presume. Putting a blower on it turns it into something else.. in some ways, for the good, in others, not so much. Pay it off, the sooner the better. I spent much of my life making payments on cars. Finally, today, I have 2 cars that I absolutely love, and own both of them outright. It's a great feeling. You won't get there chasing a new car every couple or years, or blowing lots of money on mods. You can do that later, once it's paid off, assuming you still want to. You might just find that the ZHP is a fantastic machine in original form, especially if well maintained. Good luck!

[danewilson77]

:rofl Killin me Junior. My wife doesn't like grading her papers either.

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[az3579]

I definitely see what you're saying. But then, I have to spend $10,000, pay of the car, then re-save another $7,000 for my TS2 kit. Rebuilds ARE always an option, but rebuilding an M54 isn't as "rewarding" as rebuilding an S50. Supercharger kits get into the $10,000 range to make any kind of rebuild-worthy power. I know I'd be okay without rebuilding it, but I do love E36s and I don't want to take away from the ZHP by "overdoing" the mods, if that makes sense.

In retrospect, I would spend that amount of money anyway, just on two cars, not one. So, this is my internal debate. Haha.

Is saving up again really that bad? Saving will go a lot quicker if you pay off the ZHP. Then, you have a reliable daily driver to drive while you save up for your mod car, and if something happens to the ZHP then at least you won't be in the hole. Depending on how long it takes for you to pay off your car and how much you drive, you could potentially end up in the hole on it where if it got totalled, they'd pay less than what you owe. I'm in that situation now; I owe just over $7k on my car but with the amount of miles I drive, the value of the car is rapidly diminishing, and I'm just chasing the car's value with my payments. Granted, this situation is less likely for you since you have a baby with only 80k miles so it's worth more than 10k, but that's just something to consider.

If you pay it off, you have a LOT less to worry about. Besides, the car operates just fine the way it is; it's always best to have less crap to pay if the car breaks. Who wants to still make car payments when they also have to worry about maintenance and other repairs when something breaks? The gist of it is, this is the smart play if you plan on keeping your car, and you don't necessarily "need" more power right now.


If this isn't something you want to do, then buying an E36 would be the next thing to do. Don't touch the E46, because modding two cars gets expensive very quickly...




Once again, this is all my opinion.

[danewilson77]

Damn BP. You type (speed wise) like my 10th grade English Teacher. Hehe...

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

[az3579]

Damn BP. You type (speed wise) like my 10th grade English Teacher. Hehe...

Sent from my S4 > Mason, OH

The things I learned to do just so I could type very quickly while playing online games so I didn't get killed... (back when I had no life - lol)

[Junior2552]

Is saving up again really that bad? Saving will go a lot quicker if you pay off the ZHP. Then, you have a reliable daily driver to drive while you save up for your mod car, and if something happens to the ZHP then at least you won't be in the hole. Depending on how long it takes for you to pay off your car and how much you drive, you could potentially end up in the hole on it where if it got totalled, they'd pay less than what you owe. I'm in that situation now; I owe just over $7k on my car but with the amount of miles I drive, the value of the car is rapidly diminishing, and I'm just chasing the car's value with my payments. Granted, this situation is less likely for you since you have a baby with only 80k miles so it's worth more than 10k, but that's just something to consider.

If you pay it off, you have a LOT less to worry about. Besides, the car operates just fine the way it is; it's always best to have less crap to pay if the car breaks. Who wants to still make car payments when they also have to worry about maintenance and other repairs when something breaks? The gist of it is, this is the smart play if you plan on keeping your car, and you don't necessarily "need" more power right now.


If this isn't something you want to do, then buying an E36 would be the next thing to do. Don't touch the E46, because modding two cars gets expensive very quickly...




Once again, this is all my opinion.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. But, if I paid it off, I wouldn't slap a blower on it. ONLYYYY because if I pay it off, it would be worth more in stock form, and like you said, there's less stuff to break. The E36 would turn into the project, and the ZHP would remain my baby. I totally understand where you are coming from, and that does seem to be the most financially intelligent move. When we hit 2014, I'll see where I'm at and make the move then. I can pay the car off, it would just put a huge dent in the wallet initially. Duh. Facepalm. Sorry.

Dane, it's just getting increasingly more difficult to grade papers when I have Bimmerforums to catch up on, you guys, ANDDD the CBR forum I'm on. It's exhausting; Beowulf can wait. Priorities.

[Lanister]

I'd pay off the debt before I can think of doing anything else. You'll save on interest charges in the long run too.

[terraphantm]

I vote pay it off; doesn't make sense to dump $7k on a mod when you still owe $10k.

[Avetiso]

The things I learned to do just so I could type very quickly while playing online games so I didn't get killed... (back when I had no life - lol)
True freaking story.

[Lanister]

The things I learned to do just so I could type very quickly while playing online games so I didn't get killed... (back when I had no life - lol)

That's exactly how I've gotten good at typing fast :)

Back in the TDM Quake and Quake 3 days, when there was no voice com ;) I miss those days!

[Junior2552]

I vote pay it off; doesn't make sense to dump $7k on a mod when you still owe $10k.

And I agree. Rather, I wouldn't mind spending that kind of money on an E36 M3 project. Perhaps a Technique Tuning M3?

[WOLFN8TR]

I'd pay off the debt before I can think of doing anything else. You'll save on interest charges in the long run too.


I vote pay it off; doesn't make sense to dump $7k on a mod when you still owe $10k.

X2...

Pay that sucker off. Nothing like owning you car free and clear. A blower sure would make it fun to drive but for $7000 you sure could do a lot of other mods for that price.

[Junior2552]

X2...

Pay that sucker off. Nothing like owning you car free and clear. A blower sure would make it fun to drive but for $7000 you sure could do a lot of other mods for that price.

That was my other moral dilemma. Am I really okay with spending $7,000 and getting ONE BOX in the mail? All for 100hp? I could make the car feel 100hp faster without that kind of money.

[Lanister]

Boosting a naturally aspirated engine is always risky and will certainly lower your car's reliability. The concept is certainly fun to ponder. But personally, I've never been a fan of adding blowers (be it turbo or super charger) to motors that were not built to handle boost. If I am to mess about with forced induction, I'd get a car that has the motor built for it. (I.E. Mitsubishi's 4G63T or Subaru's equivalent). Obviously, your other alternative is to build the bottom end of your zhp motor properly but then we're talking mad coin.

[echo46]

Pay it off. I always pay my cars off, I don't like owing people money. Then start saving for mods or an e36.

[derbo]

If you have an interest any higher than 1.9APR, i say pay it off.

[Junior2552]

If you have an interest any higher than 1.9APR, i say pay it off.

I think I'm at a 2.99APR. I'd have to look. It's a good rate.


Boosting a naturally aspirated engine is always risky and will certainly lower your car's reliability. The concept is certainly fun to ponder. But personally, I've never been a fan of adding blowers (be it turbo or super charger) to motors that were not built to handle boost. If I am to mess about with forced induction, I'd get a car that has the motor built for it. (I.E. Mitsubishi's 4G63T or Subaru's equivalent). Obviously, your other alternative is to build the bottom end of your zhp motor properly but then we're talking mad coin.

Which then points me back to the E36 M3. I've rebuilt an M50 once or twice in my day, and wouldn't mind doing it with beefier internals for safety's sake. Don't think I haven't also toyed with the idea of a B5 S4.... But A. That chassis is a money pit, and B. My family already has a B5 A4 project in the garage...no need for more Audis.

TRM offers a T3/T4 turbo kit for the S50/2 and I wouldn't mind playing with it a little bit. Sometimes, SOMETIMES, I miss the sound of the EJ25 under the hood of my 07 WRX. But even then... I owned a slammed E36 and drove IT more than my newer WRX.... I have a slight obsession.

[ZHPWelt]

IMO I say keep the ZHP Stock as possible. The car is worth more that way. Get the E36 or a Subaru WRX, STi and mod the crap out of it. I just sold my 05 STi that was my mod, track and just plain play with car. My ZHP is Bone Stock as is my 1M.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. :)

[Junior2552]

IMO I say keep the ZHP Stock as possible. The car is worth more that way. Get the E36 or a Subaru WRX, STi and mod the crap out of it. I just sold my 05 STi that was my mod, track and just plain play with car. My ZHP is Bone Stock as is my 1M.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. :)

I already did the Subaru thing, my dude. A Legacy GT (wagon), a 2.5RS, and a WRX hawk-eye.

But, I hear what you're saying. Maybe I'll go on a bolt-on buying spree tonight and just do the little things.

[az3579]

That was my other moral dilemma. Am I really okay with spending $7,000 and getting ONE BOX in the mail? All for 100hp? I could make the car feel 100hp faster without that kind of money.

I disagree. The only way to make it feel 100hp faster is to add 100hp. That is a big bump in power; can't be reproduced without the real deal.
At the end of the day, the ZHP isn't fast by any means, but it isn't a slouch, either.

[Junior2552]

I disagree. The only way to make it feel 100hp faster is to add 100hp. That is a big bump in power; can't be reproduced without the real deal.
At the end of the day, the ZHP isn't fast by any means, but it isn't a slouch, either.

I see where you're coming from. I was more or less exaggerating, but, everything I do to my car has some element of power to weigh ratio to it. My wheels went from ~35lbs on each corner to 19lbs on each corner. That's ~60lbs of rotating mass that I took off the car's driveline. An M5 clutch and flywheel assembly would greatly affect the car's reaction time. My coilovers by Fortune Auto (Broadway Static; thread on here) are SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than the stock suspension set up; probably a solid 5-10lbs per corner. We have two sets of seats at home, Corbeau LG1s or Recaro Sport seats, and I prefer the less abrasive/invasive support of the Corbeaus; they're 25-30lbs per seat plus brackets. Our stockers (power seats) are roughly 70 pounds, so I cut that weight in half; now, I'm at 70lbs for BOTH seats.

So, the car is well on it's way to losing weight and increasing power. The UUC short shifter (or comparable) would add to the FEEL of the car. I have also been in contact with VAC about a stage 1/2 head job that would help with some flow. The car FEELS a lot faster/quicker/torquier than it did when I bought it, and I haven't even tuned it yet.

And I have stickers. We all know the equation for stickers. It's only one sticker, but it's there.

[az3579]

^every little bit helps for sure. I did forget to mention the stickers; those are the only other way to add serious power. :biggrin

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Junior2552]

^every little bit helps for sure. I did forget to mention the stickers; those are the only other way to add serious power. :biggrin

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

See. But I don't want the added weight of all those stickers. :applause2

I have an AFE E90 intake in my garage. The inlet on it is like 4.5-5 inches; it's massive. I'm going to see if I can fab up some piping to taper it down to my throttle body, so we'll see what the weekend brings! Maybe I'll post up here.

[ELCID86]

Dis: http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?11283-FS-aFe-intake-stage-1-%2851-10451%29-300-shipped

:-D For my son's Christmas.

[customcracka]

Life is short. Buy the M3, supercharge the ZHP, then turbocharge M3. If one breaks you'll have the other.

[Junior2552]

Life is short. Buy the M3, supercharge the ZHP, then turbocharge M3. If one breaks you'll have the other.

I see you don't live anywhere near Ohio. So, when the rain, sleet, and snow comes, I'll have to choose between a supercharged ZHP, turbo M3, and a Honda CBR... I like it.