My adventure with Griot's 6" random orbital and M105/102

[BimmerWill]

Couldn't find detailing subforum on tapatalk or would hace posted there.
Alright well I tackled the job last night. Got started around 2 and didn't get don't until close to midnight. I came to some conclusions throughout this venture and would like some advice. All three pads that I used while compounding and polishing eventually flew apart (lake country and Griot's pads that came with my orbital). The slits cut into the lake country pads eventually all got ripped from the base of the pad leaving an uneven working space on the pad. Following the directions I turned the orbital up to 4-5 on the speed setting. I primed the pads as instructed but must have done something wrong in the process as I ran out of pads before I finished polishing.

In my frustration I put a coat of wax on the car and went to bed. Here are some pics of the fruits of my labor. Though I am slightly disappointed with the results I'm sure it's a learning process. Feel free to offer suggestions for improvement I'm all ears.

Outside pic is from before. Haven't been able to take after pics outside yet due to weather.

sent from S4

[ELCID86]

Sorry dude, Not sure why the pads came apart like that. I've used several brands and not had issues. A bit hard to tell what the before/after looks like in that lighting (or distance).

Typo fixed ;-)

[3ZHPGUY]

I'd say you may not have used enough compound. The compound is what what does the polishing, when you don't have enough the pad will generate heat and work in reverse (polishing your pad with your car) the lesser of the two has the abrasive working against it. Lubrication is key when polishing, you shouldn't have to apply much pressure to the machine, just let the machine do the work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[LivesNearCostco]

I also tried my Griot's 6" orbital for the first time yesterday, also usingMeguir's 105/205. Used Lake Country CCS 6.5" pads, orange and white. They didn't fall apart at all but I only polished trunk lid, hood and roof, and their loop backing doesn't have any slots or holes in them (neither does the backing plate; the CCS pad faces have little dimples). I did prime the pads with some Meguir's Quik Detailer before applying polish, but generally polished each section until the compound formed a dry film on the paint (though the pad was still moist). Didn't get to doors, fenders, bumpers or skirts. I did hand-polish the door handle recesses with some 105 and handheld foam pad, which reduced the appearance of scratches in the recesses.

I used very little pressure and tried to make sure the pad was completely centered on the backing plate. Overall the clear coat now looks much better, but I couldn't get out all the fine scratches and there are still some water spot marks on the hood. Maybe I was not using aggressive enough pads with the 105? To avoid hijacking BimmerWill's thread, I will post a separate question in the Detailing forum.

I also made a few mistakes in the prep (with clay bar and tape), which I will mention in my separate thread.

[BimmerWill]

I felt like I put quite a bit of compound on there but maybe I went to light.

sent from S4

[LivesNearCostco]

Maybe I also didn't use enough compound. My first step was going after a few deep scratches and repeatedly using M105 in those spots with the orange pad did remove or improve the deep scratches, but I did many passes, each time using just a little compound (and adding a little compound 4 or 5 times per area). Later I did 3 or 4 passes on big areas, adding a little 105 compound only once or twice per area--and this removed most but not all the swirl marks and water spots.

Edit, so maybe I was just being too cheap/miserly with the polishing compound.

[johnrando]

Couldn't find detailing subforum on tapatalk or would hace posted there.
Alright well I tackled the job last night. Got started around 2 and didn't get don't until close to midnight. I came to some conclusions throughout this venture and would like some advice. All three pads that I used while compounding and polishing eventually flew apart (lake country and Griot's pads that came with my orbital). The slits cut into the lake country pads eventually all got ripped from the base of the pad leaving an uneven working space on the pad. Following the directions I turned the orbital up to 4-5 on the speed setting. I primed the pads as instructed but must have done something wrong in the process as I ran out of pads before I finished polishing.

In my frustration I put a coat of wax on the car and went to bed. Here are some pics of the fruits of my labor. Though I am slightly disappointed with the results I'm sure it's a learning process. Feel free to offer suggestions for improvement I'm all ears.

Outside pic is from before. Haven't been able to take after pics outside yet due to weather.

sent from S4

I'll move it when you're ready.

[ELCID86]

I felt like I put quite a bit of compound on there but maybe I went to light.

sent from S4
What compound were you using?

[BimmerWill]

I'll move it when you're ready.

Thanks John you can go ahead.


What compound were you using?

We were both using Meguiar's M105.


sent from S4

[ELCID86]

Thanks John you can go ahead.



We were both using Meguiar's M105.


sent from S4
Thanks. That's what I used on mine then 205. Came out pretty nicely, I thought. Not sure what's going on with your issues.

[johnrando]

Moved.

[BimmerWill]

Thanks. That's what I used on mine then 205. Came out pretty nicely, I thought. Not sure what's going on with your issues.

Honestly I may be jumping to conclusions. My lighting is fairly poor in the garage if you can't tell. We'll see what it's like in some sunshine later this week.

My main issue was burning up pads I paid 30 some odd dollars for and wasn't even able to finish the car.

sent from S4

[LivesNearCostco]

Just speculating on the pad failures... perhaps used too dry (as already suggested) or not centered on the backing plate? Or too much pressure, defective pads, going over a section of road rash?

Here are some of my recently-discovered detailing mistakes:

Letting tap water dry on the car. Not sure if evil water spots on hood predate my ownership, but I've definitely hosed down car and let water dry forming spots.
Using cheap painter's tape and leaving it on too long: I use cheap HF blue tape. If I remove it within a few hours, no problem. But leave it on for 1 or 2 days and it leaves sticky residue, especially parts that sat in the sun.
Polishing with M205 first on neglected paint. While it made things look better, most parts of my car needed or will need more aggressive polishing with M105 first. Of course I wouldn't have known that without using the M205 first.
Re-using wet foam pad. Used it, washed it, tried to use again after squeezing out. Extra water made polish sling everywhere! Had to switch to 2nd (dry) foam pad.
Not claying enough, or waiting too long after claybar. Washed and clayed car, but clayed much of it quickly at dusk. After polishing a week later, found more embedded contaminants (some now under the sealant) that were either missed during claying or embedded themselves in the week between clay and polish.
Applying sealant after only rough polish. For roof, did fine polish, then rough polish, then sealed without doing fine polish again. Looks good but would surely look better if I had gone back with fine polish again before sealant.


So for the door panels, fenders and rear bumper cover, I plan to re-clay (actually never clayed the rear bumper), then start with M105 (orange pad) and finish with M205 (white pad). Then sealant. Front bumper cover has so many rock chips, I might not polish at all. For hood, I think sealant will have to wait until after I use the Dr. Color Chip.

Then Maybe I'll try putting wax on top of the sealant!

[BimmerWill]

I'm beginning to think that what caused my problems the most was not cleaning the pads when I was adding more product causing a buildup of dried/drying product. I'm not sure if that contributed to the degration of the pads but im sure it decreased the effectiveness of both M105 and M205.

I try not to let any tap water sit on it for any reason. I usually dry the case immediately after a wash as water spots form rather quickly on my paint. I clayed and polished all in the same night (although wish I had started earlier that day instead of mid-afternoon). I wasn't able to finish with the fine polish on any of the doors due to running out of pads.

In truth this little venture cost me more up front then I anticipated and as a result ran out of the proper funds to support a truly detailed correction.

I did learn some things however and will continue to improve my technique as well as the tools at hand. As of now the car sits with a coat of wax on it. Was unable to pick up any sealant just yet. Will hopefully clay again at the end of winter and finish what I started in the beginning making sure I have all the right tools from the beginning.

sent from S4

[ELCID86]

Life is a learning process. Sounds like a solid plan. There are some pretty good videos on youtube on polishing. I'll need a refresher before I tackle it again.

[LivesNearCostco]

The detailing sites all seem to say you need more than one pad of each kind to polish a car because of the build-up of polish on the pads. Assumed it was a marketing plan to sell more pads, but maybe it's true. Some of the kits come with just one pad, or one of each pad type. I got no build-up, probably because I didn't use enough polish!

[M0nk3y]

I use 5 to 6 pads per step on a car. In my mind I divide the car up for the number of pads I use.

For example, I'll use a pad for my front bumper + hood
One for each side of the car from the fender + door
One for the rear quarter panels + 1/2 bumpers
One for the roof.


Eventually it comes a law of diminishing returns when you try and extend the pad life for that certain car. The pad will get gunked up and lead to longer work times, which thus mean you're spending more time on that specific section and probably not correct as much paint as a new pad.

Sorry about your experiences, but think of it in a positive way...you didn't burn paint (well it is pretty hard to do so regardless but you know what I mean)

[BimmerWill]

Thanks for the tips!

Took a pic today still sitting in the garage haven't moved it yet. Debating on ordering some sealant and taking the wax off then doing sealant and then wax.
Anyone have a favorite sealant?


sent from S4

[LivesNearCostco]

So if you're doing 2 levels of polish, you'd need 10 or 12 pads? How much polish do you typically use when you do your car?

I use 5 to 6 pads per step on a car. In my mind I divide the car up for the number of pads I use.

[M0nk3y]

So if you're doing 2 levels of polish, you'd need 10 or 12 pads? How much polish do you typically use when you do your car?

Yea, when I do polishing that is what I like.

IMO you can get away w/3 pads per step at a minimum.

As for polish consumption, haven't really ever kept track. I have yet to buy anymore additional polish...if that says something?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[BimmerWill]

Finally was able to take some pictures outside. Let me know what you all think.
Sorry for the camera phone quality. Hope to get a buddy to take some for me soon.

sent from S4

[Washburn]

I can't see any difference whatsoever from those pictures, but it's hardly show differences after detailing on lighter colored cars...
one needs to get close up shots with a good DSLR, really. Or a reflection of an overhead light/lamp inside a garage perhaps,
SAME panel, SAME lighting conditions, etc. - then one can see if there were imperfections before, and if they're gone afterwards.

I also have a Griot's ROB that I haven't even opened yet. Need to start using it on the ZHP.
My plan:
ONR wash
NanoSkin sponge
Duragloss 501
BlackFire Crystal seal.

Blackfire Crystal Seal is the only sealant I have experience with. it's a WOWA sealant, and easy to apply.
It worked great on My wife's new Mazda after just ONR wash and claying with NanoSkin sponge (as the car is very new, did NOT polish).
Even after 4 months, without any other care, water beading nicely, and still looks shiny.

2 pics of the wife's Mazda right after above mentioned ONR Wash/clay (nanoskin)/ Blackfire sealant regimen:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/nishang/IMG_1923.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/nishang/IMG_1925.jpg

[ELCID86]

Very hard to take pictures of swirls, etc.

Ref. claying, I used to use actual clay, but I recently bought this set: http://www.autogeek.net/nanoskin-speedy-prep-sponge-combo.html

but the detailer that I used prefers this one: Said he can get ~50 uses out of it: http://www.amazon.com/Nanoskin-AS-016-AutoScrub-Fine-Grade/dp/B00DOS0LH2

[BimmerWill]

Very hard to take pictures of swirls, etc.

Ref. claying, I used to use actual clay, but I recently bought this set: http://www.autogeek.net/nanoskin-speedy-prep-sponge-combo.html

but the detailer that I used prefers this one: Said he can get ~50 uses out of it: http://www.amazon.com/Nanoskin-AS-016-AutoScrub-Fine-Grade/dp/B00DOS0LH2

I may have to check that out it looks like a great alternative to clay!

I did an attempt at taking some panel pics before I started the work but could never get them to come out right so pics will have to wait until next time. Personally I think it made a big difference but I may be biased. It has been a long road getting the paint to where it is now and I feel it has paid off even if only in my minds eye. My hands can tell a considerable increase in the smoothness of the paint as well. Hoping to take some pics tonight which I will pass along as soon as he finishes with them. I appreciate everyone's help through this learning experience.

sent from S4

[Washburn]

Yeah - I do believe you made a difference, but it's hard to show on a light colored car using a cell phone camera.
(I think there are special LED lamps that one can use to see / photograph swirls - I just try to use one of my LED table lamps, and it works quite well)

Main thing is, your work made a difference, and you know and see it.
I also hope to learn a lot about using a ROB, and I am sure it won't be as easy as it seems sometimes.

[billyjack]

Thanks for the tips!

Took a pic today still sitting in the garage haven't moved it yet. Debating on ordering some sealant and taking the wax off then doing sealant and then wax.
Anyone have a favorite sealant?


sent from S4

After many years of use I'm still partial to Klasse. Its extremely easy to use and lasts forever. But I've also seen great results from Wolfgang. I would like to try other brands when my current bottle runs out just to see what any differences are.

[ELCID86]

Good to hear. I but some Klasse and showed it to the detailer guy. He said he wasn't familiar with it... I need to give it a whirl.

[Washburn]

If you mean the Klasse SG sealant, it's one of the hardest sealants to work with, from what I have read, and that's the reason even the pros sometimes shy away from it. (This is not Klasse AIO, which is a different product, and probably one of the easiest AIOs to work with)

Autogeek forums are a good place to read about it, and I am sure there are some good threads on there, with a lot of info on how to make it least troublesome, should you go with Klasse SG.

found one:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/17980-klasse-sealant.html

Personally, I would go with something easier to apply, like BlackFire - WOWA, and 2 coats should really get the job done for at least 6 mo protection.

[LivesNearCostco]

I use Menzerma's PowerLock sealant but it's the only one I've tried and only had it on parts of the car for 2 weeks, so cannot comment on durability. It is very easy to apply and wipe off. It <Edit> gives the car a nice glossy shine but not a glowing liquid glass-like finish, but that could be due to a few reasons...
1) Most parts of car were only rough polished with Meguiar's 105, not fine polished with something like 205.
2) Car paint, particularly on sides (vertical surfaces) have orange peel texture. I think that reduces the shine impression a bit.
3) I only let it set up for 10-15 minutes before buffing off. Maybe not long enough?
4) I didn't wax on top of the sealant, yet.

Two days ago I finished polishing the rest of the car with 105. Started with 205 by mistake so left front door and fender got only 205, rest of sides and rear bumper got only 105. Will try to finish fine polishing rest of car with 205 on Sunday. I don't want to seal the hood or mirror covers because those need a lot of paint chips filled.

Detailer's Domain recommended Sonax Polymer Net Shield as a top one to try.

[ELCID86]

Article on shooting swirls "How to get the most swirls in your shot"
http://www.detailingbliss.com/topic/28740-how-to-get-the-most-swirls-in-your-shot/

[LivesNearCostco]

I gave up on more polishing for now. Yesterday washed car, did some more clay bar in a few spots, then applied sealant everywhere except hood and front bumper. The polishing did make the car look so much nicer, but I didn't polish enough to get out all the swirl marks and didn't finish with the fine polish to provide maximum shine. Plus I found so many little dots of polish sling from last week and cleaning it up was a major hassle. My mistake was probably lifting the pad off the surface while it was turning, in order to polish small areas. Next time will try that at a much lower speed.

Also filled in a few chips with Dr. Color Chip and glued little rubber pads to the back of the license plate holder so the screws wouldn't keep scratching the paint. 3 out of 4 screw holes were missing their protective rubber pads. Tomorrow or this weekend I'll apply wax on top of the sealant and see if that makes it look more like liquid metal. In a few months I'll go after the swirl marks and scratches again with the Griot's RO.

For Lake Country CCS pads, is the best pad for Meguiar's 105 is the yellow (most aggressive) or orange (medium) pad? Or does it depend on the scratches?

[BimmerWill]

M0nk3y said that he used cyan and tangerine when using M105 and M205. Sounds like you got a lot of work done. I wish I would have spent another day on it but got a little frustrated with the pads and quit before I probably should have as I didn't make it to final polish yet either (ran out of pads). Right now its got several coats of wax on it as I didn't purchase sealant before I started the project. When springtime comes around I may take another crack at it but right now i don't want to perfect too much just for the salt and grime to screw everything up again. She will be getting clayed again at least this spring.

Looking forward to some pics when you get a chance. I couldn't believe how smooth the paint felt when I got done though. Don't think I've ever felt paint so smooth ;)

sent from S4

[M0nk3y]

For Meguiars, like Will said...the LCC Cyan and Tangerine pads are the best, because they are formulated to work with water based polishes, which is exactly what M105/205 is

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[LivesNearCostco]

Appreciate it guys. Since I already bought 7 Lake Country CCS 6.5" pads I'm trying to use those, but if doing all over again, would get 5.5" pads HydroTech pads.

Looking at the AutoGeek web site, it looks like HydroTech Cyan is similar to the CCS yellow and HydroTech Tangerine has a little less cut than CCS orange (but leaves finish similar to CCS gray), so probably similar in cut to CCS white. The HydroTech crimson sounds like the CCS green or gray. So I should use the CCS yellow with the Meguiar's 105 and CCS orange or white with the Meguiar's 205. Having 4 levels of pad cut (with CCS) and 3 levels of product is driving me nuts! :-) That's another advantage to the HydroTech pads--only 3 pad colors!

Lake Country CCS options: http://www.autogeek.net/lc-ccs-foam-pads.html
Lake Country HydroTech options: http://www.autogeek.net/hydrotech-low-profile-pads.html

Edit and rant: Why does Lake Country use different color systems for their different pads? And how do the CCS pads have both a yellow and gold option, where yellow has the highest cut and gold has zero cut and is for jeweling? (/rant)

Edit #2: Somebody on the Meguiar's forum created this nice comparison chart! Now I feel less ignorant.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x121/tropicaldetailing/truth/lcmegspadchart1200-1.jpg

[Oli77]

This is the thread I was looking for as my sweet darling bought me an Griot 6 inches random orbital polisher.

PO was a lady with a handbag that was often placed on the roof and trunk lip. So I have good scratches.

Please correct this plan:

Wash
Dry
Claybar
Cyan then orange pads with 105 compound from meguiar.
Then sealant or wax?

Searching for videos now. Don't know what i'm doing.

[danewilson77]

Sealant....wait 24 hours, then wax.

Samsung Galaxy S5...

[M0nk3y]

This is the thread I was looking for as my sweet darling bought me an Griot 6 inches random orbital polisher.

PO was a lady with a handbag that was often placed on the roof and trunk lip. So I have good scratches.

Please correct this plan:

Wash
Dry
Claybar
Cyan then orange pads with 105 compound from meguiar.
Then sealant or wax?

Searching for videos now. Don't know what i'm doing.

I'm assuming you're talking about Tangerine HydroPad, not Orange? Orange LCC pad would be at the same level of aggressiveness as a Cyan.

[Oli77]

Good catch MOnk. Tangerine and Cyan hydropads. So let me ask you another question, these pads and compounds can only be purchase on the internet?

I don't see them at local part stores.

Also can I just get away with either of these pads or do I need one pass with Cyan and the compound AND a second pass with tangerine and the same compound?

[M0nk3y]

Good catch MOnk. Tangerine and Cyan hydropads. So let me ask you another question, these pads and compounds can only be purchase on the internet?

I don't see them at local part stores.

Also can I just get away with either of these pads or do I need one pass with Cyan and the compound AND a second pass with tangerine and the same compound?

I'm starting to see M105/M205 slowly start showing up in Autozones. The pads I have never seen at a chain store.

I'd suggest going over with M105 and Tangerine to clean it up. Typically I'd like to use M205 with Tangerine, but M105 will finish nicely with that pad combo.

[Oli77]

Should I stay away from Griot's garage products? Thinking orange pads and #3 compound.

[Oli77]

Thread Jack. I am set to go and did I buy the right things? 19416

Was going to start with orange pad on the cutting compound.

[BimmerWill]

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this. You could have gone with a blue pad to start with. Our paint is so hard you really have to work at it to worry about taking too much off. Hope it worked out well for you.

[Oli77]

Will, I took all my stuff to the mafia meet last weekend and spoke to Guy and another person (not on the board). They gave me pointers.

I still have not started playing with this.

When I do, this is the thread I will comment on with picks.

[ELCID86]

Oil, I'm not sure how bad your swirls were (hard to tell on silver). You may or may not need that much "cut". Check Detailers Domain forum for a ton of info.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

[BimmerWill]

I used detailers domain and autopia for sources of info. Great write up on autopia dealing with these exact products. Worth reading.

[Oli77]

Oil, I'm not sure how bad your swirls were (hard to tell on silver). You may or may not need that much "cut". Check Detailers Domain forum for a ton of info.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

Wadchucallme?

Agreed, I will check on these sites. Thanks for the reminders guys.

[JB3]

Your new nickname. Dealwithit.

[emoji41]

Lol

Sent from my OnePlus One. Regularly foiled by autocorrect. But duck it.

[ELCID86]

Boss approved?

20456


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk.

[danewilson77]

Yes Sir.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge

[Oli77]

I still need to do this and take the plunge. Somebody push me...

[BMWCurves]

*shove*

[Oli77]

I did my trunk! 25350

[3ZHPGUY]

That's a start! Do you need another push, or just a kick in the.... [emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk

[Oli77]

Lol. Just starting for the first time.

No need to put pressure on the polisher right?

[theothersawyer]

Correct!

[LivesNearCostco]

Looks great! I need to polish my trunk, and hood, and roof, on 3 cars (2 BMW, 1 Saturn).

[theothersawyer]

My friend is letting me borrow his buffer this week! So I'll be doing mine probably Wednesday!

[Sockethead]

Kristen Bought me the polisher, pads and everything to get started for Christmas around 4 years ago but I'm pretty scared to experiment on my black car. The car had some really bad holograms when I bought it.... took two trips to the detailer to fix. I was going to experiment on the Honda Accord we had for a winter beater at the time but we sold it before I got the chance. Everything is still unopened in the boxes... :(

[Oli77]

Need a push too ha?

[Oli77]

Looks great! I need to polish my trunk, and hood, and roof, on 3 cars (2 BMW, 1 Saturn).

Thanks, I am learning and doing it "one step at a time". I will tackle the roof next. Finish with the hood cause that is probably the most obvious area that you don't want to mess up.

[Sockethead]

Need a push too ha?

YEP ;)