Thermostat... and anything else

[PirateZHP]

Good morning ladies and gents...

This morning, I started my car, left it running a few minutes to warm up. When I returned, the temp needle was at the red. I quickly turned the car off, and promptly email Dane for assistance. (Big props to the boss for helping me out first thing in the morning!) I let the engine cool as I searched the engine bay high and low for any fluids or any signs of anything malfunctioning. There were no signs of anything. At this point, Dane suggested that it sounded like the thermostat may have failed... got stuck... etc. After the engine cooled a bit, I checked the coolant level. Perfect. So, I started the car again and sat with it. Five minutes go by. Ten minutes go by. Temp is registering dead center. So, I rev the engine. Temp registers dead center. So... it seems that the boss' idea of thermostat is correct.

With all this said (here's your TLDR): Who wants to make a trip to the great city of Raleigh, NC? If like to stay with the thermostat and anything else in there you think we should get done while there (water pump?). I'm not great with a wrench, and frankly don't trust myself to do much of anything with a wrench. But, I'm damn good at making sure people have full stomachs and stay hydrated with whatever they like to stay hydrated with. On the other hand, I can make plans to travel to you if you would rather.

Anyone interested?

[Vas]

Its not too difficult of a job if you are just replacing the t-stat.

Here is a decent DIY if you decide to tackle this on your own.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=665860

Otherwise I am about 4 hours north in Virginia. Maybe there are members closer to your location that can help out.

[PirateZHP]

You are right... it doesn't look horrible. And, if this was a secondary car, I'd try it myself. But, this is my DD so I don't know that I trust myself fully. Thus the post... If there are no takers, sure... I'll try it.

[Johnmadd]

You could come to Williamsburg Virginia, but don't underestimate yourself, you can do this, it really is simple and the feeling you will have afterwards will give you confidence to maybe start doing more yourself.

[fredo]

OP, the website repairpal.com/estimator says the thermostat replacement (labor and parts) runs between $224 to $349 in my zip code. Not sure if you already asked for an estimate, so I'm sharing the info with you.

[alexandre]

Keep in mind this could be due to an air pocket in the system - it's happened to me several times when the car sat for a while in very cold weather.

The air will get stuck in the radiator, and expand there because of the cold, and nothing will circulate until the car warms up/the motor runs at 2500+ rpm long enough to produce enough pressure to move it out. If the needle acts normal now, you most likely don't have a t-stat problem... They very rarely fail closed (never heard of it at least). Don't dismiss that, but explore the air pocket option too.

[ELCID86]

It's really not that bad. I did the whole cooling system on my old (sold) 330Ci. My first major shade-tree project. How many miles do you have? Water pump and pulleys might be in order. Just don't over tighten the bolts on the water pump if you do decide to replace it...

Happy to help if you need it, though I'm about 3.5 hours and I'm sure there are folks closer.

[PirateZHP]

Thanks, everyone. Alexandre, I had not thought to look into an air pocket. I assume I can just bleed the system? Fredo, I had not looked into getting an estimate yet. Thank you for that. Shawn, you really over-estimate my abilities with a wrench, although I probably under-estimate it as well.

This is probably about the coldest this car has seen in its lifetime, so I am sure that is playing a role. I am going to keep a really close eye on it over the next couple of days, and then decide what to do.

[ELCID86]

I only see two shops with reviews in your area: http://www.bimmershops.com/search?q=Raleigh A starting point if you go that route (but I don't think you should).

[PirateZHP]

I know of 4 shops here that are very good.

I'm leaning towards working on it myself... with a buddy of mine. But I haven't fully convinced myself yet.

[ELCID86]

Do it! The DIYs and an extra set of hands will make this an easy job. Just make sure you have all the parts on hand or a dealership near by!

[LivesNearCostco]

Thermostat is not difficult. IIRC you don't have to remove serpentine belt to change the thermostat. To me the parts to pay attention to are:

If auto, need 32mm open end wrench plus either fan holding tool or rubber mallet to remove clutch fan--remember it's a left-hand threaded nut
If manual, need to remove torx screw (T27? T30?) and 3 push pins plus disconnect 2 plugs to remove electric fan
Drain ET halfway (can re-use coolant if it's clean), or just lose some coolant out of hoses when changing thermostat and replace it. If replacing lower hose and fan temp sensor, will lose a lot more coolant because it plugs into lower part of radiator.
Might need 10mm deep socket for thermostat bolts, possibly also 13mm socket if engine hook has to be loosened to get to thermostat bolts.
Make sure to remove old gasket. It usually comes off easily but could stick. Carefully clean thermostat mounting surface.
Don't over-tighten bolts when installing new thermostat.
Make sure hoses are fully seated on thermostat openings with clips open, before closing locking clips on the hoses.
Properly bleed coolant system after refilling coolant (search for proper bleed procedure)


Edit: reviewing the E46 fanatics DIY, you do need a 13mm and 11mm sockets or nut drivers for the engine hook, you do NOT need to apply RTV (though it might make the seal last longer), don't need to remove serpentine belt, and the Torx screw for the electric fan takes a T25 bit. And if you have an auto but don't want to buy the fan clutch removal kit ($50 at Amazon), and can't find a 32mm wrench, it's likely a 1.25" SAE wrench will work, as 1.25" is 31.75mm.

And if you decide to do a complete cooling system refresh, be sure to replace water pump, fan temp sensor, AT cooling valve (if you have AT), ET and ET cap.

[PirateZHP]

So here's the question: I don't know (truly) if the cooling system has been done. I have a feeling it has (previous to Hokie owning the car), but cannot confirm. So, at 162k miles, it seems like this may be a good idea. However, there are absolutely no signs of the cooling system failing...

I was getting close to doing the thermostat myself, but if the best decision is to do the whole cooling system, I would feel better having some help from someone who has done it... if for nothing else, to look over my shoulder and help guide.

What are everyone's thoughts on doing cooling system or not?

[LivesNearCostco]

Usually the ET has the manufacture date on the side on a label, though if it's original at 162K miles, the label might no longer be there (or no longer readable). If you have a small inspection mirror, might be able to read label on ET. A shop had told me mine was replaced around 75,000 miles, and when I replaced it at 150,000 miles, the manufacture date was consistent with being replaced around then.

[PirateZHP]

I can see the label fairly clearly, so I'll check when I get to the car again.

[johnrando]

That. If you can't find out, it's probably worth at minimum, changing out the expansion tank to be safe.

[HokieZHP]

The cooling system hasn't been done to my knowledge but hasn't shown any signs of failure besides a coolant level sensor that's a bit on and off. I checked the coolant tank when I had it and it says it's from 2003

[PirateZHP]

The cooling system hasn't been done to my knowledge but hasn't shown any signs of failure besides a coolant level sensor that's a bit on and off. I checked the coolant tank when I had it and it says it's from 2003

Thanks, Chris. I hadn't had a chance to look at it yet. The quick glance at the system seems to look very good. I would prefer not to do it all right this minute, but I also know that it's something that should be done (hopefully) proactively. So, that's why I am trying to decide whether or not to do it all right now or not if I am doing the thermostat already.

[HokieZHP]

Thanks, Chris. I hadn't had a chance to look at it yet. The quick glance at the system seems to look very good. I would prefer not to do it all right this minute, but I also know that it's something that should be done (hopefully) proactively. So, that's why I am trying to decide whether or not to do it all right now or not if I am doing the thermostat already.

Yup no worries. I always went back and forth with whether or not to do it. But decided to take care of other, more pressing items instead.

[QC_ZHP]

Matt, my sister lives in Cary, so I'll give you a heads up the next time I visit and maybe I can lend you a hand if you need

[PirateZHP]

Matt, my sister lives in Cary, so I'll give you a heads up the next time I visit and maybe I can lend you a hand if you need

Awesome, thanks!

[Smolck]

Thermostat is not difficult. IIRC you don't have to remove serpentine belt to change the thermostat. T

Luckily, the tstat does not require removal of the belt. If it is an auto car, the hardest part is getting the fan off, and by hard I mean having a 32mm or 1 and 1/4 wrench and a 3lb mini sledge to hit it with.

I changed a Tstat once, on the side of the interstate, in the rain, in 15 minutes flat. It is so easy.

But, as you say, without proof the cooling system has been done, at the very least you need to replace the ET, WP, and Tstat. Upper and lower hoses should be replaced, but they rarely fail.

And lastly, NEVER let your car warm up. It is bad for the car (kills the cats) and like you almost found out, could cost you an engine.

[PirateZHP]

Luckily, the tstat does not require removal of the belt. If it is an auto car, the hardest part is getting the fan off, and by hard I mean having a 32mm or 1 and 1/4 wrench and a 3lb mini sledge to hit it with.

I changed a Tstat once, on the side of the interstate, in the rain, in 15 minutes flat. It is so easy.

But, as you say, without proof the cooling system has been done, at the very least you need to replace the ET, WP, and Tstat. Upper and lower hoses should be replaced, but they rarely fail.

And lastly, NEVER let your car warm up. It is bad for the car (kills the cats) and like you almost found out, could cost you an engine.

Thanks, Smolk. I have loved reading your recent works on your zhp with the catch can. I know you are a bit of a gear head, but if you can change the tstat in 15 minutes, I should be able to do it. I'm not incompetent.

The decision is whether or not to do the other cooling system stuff.

And, lastly... the car warmed up with me in it this morning... I only let it get out of the blue before I took off.

[PirateZHP]

After seeing Smolk post the link to the oem coming system refresh kit for $299 in another thread, I'm leaning towards doing everything... if my nerves don't squash the idea.


Edit: who or where is the best/most detailed diy?

[Smolck]

I know you are a bit of a gear head, but if you can change the tstat in 15 minutes, I should be able to do it. I'm not incompetent.

Exactly. My point was if you even have half a brain you can do the whole cooling system. On these cars it is a joke! Do NOT be afraid. I have done more of them than I can remember and it is ALWAYS easy. I have a few vids (they are shaky so be warned) on my youtube channel of most of the process, check em out, you will feel confident when done.

[PirateZHP]

Exactly. My point was if you even have half a brain you can do the whole cooling system. On these cars it is a joke! Do NOT be afraid. I have done more of them than I can remember and it is ALWAYS easy. I have a few vids (they are shaky so be warned) on my youtube channel of most of the process, check em out, you will feel confident when done.

Thanks, smolk! I hope to one day be able to contribute like you have to our zhp community.

[ELCID86]

I'd do it all if you have that many miles (years) on it. Surely someone down there can lend a hand. If not you could probably talk me into coming down.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1).

[PirateZHP]

I'd do it all if you have that many miles (years) on it. Surely someone down there can lend a hand. If not you could probably talk me into coming down.


Thumbs, iPhone, Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1).

Shawn, I've got one buddy on board down here. He has never done it, so it's the blind leading the blind. I think another friend would be on board too, but he hasn't done it either... nor has he had a BMW of any kind.

So... we'll see...

[ELCID86]

Keep me posted on the decision and status of parts.

[Reckless]

I was in a similar position, t-stat soft fail @72k and I chose to just have a Indy shop replace the t-stat that I provided them (from BMA) I also provided BMW coolant and distilled water. After install I got the left over coolant back to which I thought was kind of light for a 50/50 mixture. After 5k miles, t-stat code has been thrown for t-stat cooling map failure. I drained my coolant and saw there was pure coolant, no mixture. I swore off shops, and put everything back together with a 50/50 mix. Going to be tackling the entire cooling system in the next few weeks if you want to come down, along with a new DISA and CCV. I also was trying to get something set up for wrenching in February in the DC area. Seems it is too busy and too cold so I am going to wait till spring but might be an opportune time to tackle a cooling system too.

My sister lives in Alexandria and has a nice 2 car garage with 3 BMW's in the stable - e92 wagon, e46 vert and e39 wagon. Her husband has been jumping on the diy train with the e39 so I was hoping to get the garage use for a weekend. let me know if any of this sounds useful for ya.

Brian

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?11621-VANOS-Experience-Needed-in-Mid-Atlantic-Area

[PirateZHP]

Brian, I posted in that thread as well a few days ago. I'm down for getting something together if my buddy here doesn't feel comfortable doing the job with me.

Who has the best DIY with the most detail? I want to send it to my buddy for him to look through before...

[ELCID86]

Start here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=914109

Pulleys: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=850296 (not that you asked, but I like spending other ppl's money)

[Smolck]

:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm
Start here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=914109

Pulleys: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=850296

Ugh, Mango.....

[ELCID86]

Yeah... The wiki is always a good place to start.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php?title=BMW_E46#Thermostat_replacement

[alexandre]

Do tstats actually soft fail? I thought it was immediate like most fuel pumps. If so I'm gonna look into replacing mine eventually. My cooling system has 55k on it (pump, tank, hoses, - pulleys, radiator, belts are 5k old) should I look into replacing some stuff eventually? Keeping in mind my car sees temps from -15F to 90F throughout the year regularly, I'm thinking the plastics probably work a lot more than cars from the south.


iP4S + TT2

[danewilson77]

:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

Ugh, Mango.....

...It's a fruit

[QC_ZHP]

...It's a fruit

lol

[johnrando]

+1