346 m3 vs zhp

[diverse]

I was doing some calculations
for an additional 5000 or three months of savings
I can get a low mileage M3 from car max 53k-80k miles
vs the zhp

if you could wait the three months and save the additionl 5k necessary to get the loan
would you?

or would you just get the ZHP for the 5k lower price now?

[Newjack]

I was doing some calculations
for an additional 5000 or three months of savings
I can get a low mileage M3 from car max 53k-80k miles
vs the zhp

if you could wait the three months and save the additionl 5k necessary to get the loan
would you?

or would you just get the ZHP for the 5k lower price now?

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that most people on this forum would stick with the zhp, considering this is a forum dedicated to the zhp. I could be totally wrong though.

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[Hornung418]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that most people on this forum would stick with the zhp, considering this is a forum dedicated to the zhp. I could be totally wrong though.

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:rofl

Thinking a new record for most created threads in a week of membership...

Sent from my GS3.

[diverse]

I thought about that where I am and all
There are a lot of things to consider though
maintenance cost of maintence drivability etc etc
look.

maybe it is not worth the extra expenditure maybe it is .

Maybe there are people here who have driven both
or currently own both.

Some people have the ability to be very objective.

just because one car is better for some does not make it better for all.

don't you agree?

[Newjack]

I thought about that where I am and all
There are a lot of things to consider though
maintenance cost of maintence drivability etc etc
look.

maybe it is not worth the extra expenditure maybe it is .

Maybe there are people here who have driven both
or currently own both.

Some people have the ability to be very objective.

just because one car is better for some does not make it better for all.

don't you agree?

http://i.imgur.com/ybHkLGR.gif

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[diverse]

Why do you think my name is diverse don't be confused it's not perverse

It means the Search....... is not ended
knowledge has been blended
the council of the elders I have attended
and learned that truth must be defended.

I am a true seeker of knowledge always have been and hope to always will remain so.

We learn by asking questions

A.S.K
Ask
Seek
Knock

ask and you shall be answered
Seek and you shall find
Knock and the door will be opened.

That's my excuse. whats your reasoning for bringing that to light?

[Newjack]

Why do you think my name is diverse don't be confused it's not perverse

It means the Search....... is not ended
knowledge has been blended
the council of the elders I have attended
and learned that truth must be defended.

I am a true seeker of knowledge always have been and hope to always will remain so.

We learn by asking questions

A.S.K
Ask
Seek
Knock

ask and you shall be answered
Seek and you shall find
Knock and the door will be opened.

That's my excuse. whats your reasoning for bringing that to light?

http://replygif.net/i/105.gif

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[Smolck]

I think I'd go M3. It will cost more to maintain, but so what? What a car!

[QC_ZHP]

That gif had me rolling NewJack! Haha.

In all seriousness, its up to you to buy what you want. Me? I'd keep the ZHP, save the $5000, s54 swap. 4 doors FTW.

[webster]

if you do a search on e46f with the terms "E46 M3 v ZHP" you will probably find dozens if not hundreds of comparison threads. lots of reading material.

[bullfrogs_M3]

I will speak from personal experience from owning both a 2002 E46 M3 and my current 2004 ZHP.

When I first got into the BMW brand, it was with my wife and buying her a 3.0 X5. We loved that thing and at the time I had a clean title heavily modded 270WHP Grand Prix GTP. So I started to do some looking around for a new car and originally found that I really really like the ZHP over the M3. However after test driving a Dinan badged SMG M3, I was sold and ended up buying it that day. The power that an M3 has is absolutely incredible!!! It is raw but checked and subtle (depending on mods of course) but when you want to drive it as a drivers car, it is more than willing to let you drop the hammer and ask if you have anything else to throw at it. I ended doing some subtle mods to the car. JIC Coilovers, UUC Sways, (kept the Dinan mods, exhaust, intakes, software), Euro SMG flash and wheels. This thing was planted, firm in every corner I threw it at and took off like a bat outta hell. BUT..... I was currently driving about 75 miles/day on it for a local job and the miles added up quick in 2 years. That being said, the maintenance cost started to go up and up. Before I threw in the towel I was looking at having to drop 3-4K out of my pocket for a steering issue(it constantly felt like I was on ice on a clear dry summer day) and other internal issues.

Before I threw in the towel I actively started looking at my first choice the ZHP. I was lucky enough to find this one with all my options I set out for (Black, Natural Brown, 6MT, low low mileage). After having owned this car for longer than I have owned any car I have ever had, I can honestly say this is the best thing I have driven, PERIOD. My maintenance costs are reasonable (when i actually DO take it in, which is only twice since i've owned the car) and my mods, while subtle and many are very reasonably priced as well. I couldn't say those two statements at all when I owned the M3, that car commands a higher premium for parts/labor/etc. over the standard E46. This should ABSOLUTELY be what you take into consideration when thinking about the M3. Seriously, find an M3 online, then spec out the list of things you want to do to it, exterior, interior and engine. Then do the same with a non-M3 and compare pricing.

I also really appreciate the insurance aspect of the ZHP over the M3. When I had the M, it was a sports car coupe which drove my insurance up considerably. But with this, it is only classified as a sedan and those additional OEM performance options we have are not taken into consideration (or at least with my insurance buddy).

All said and done:

Pro's for M3:
Power, Power, Power
Instantly recognizable as a performance car. PERIOD

Con's for M3:
Maintenance costs are high (at my time of ownership)
Mod costs are high
Insurance costs are high (depending on age and state of course)

Pro's for ZHP:
Realistic maintenance costs
Realistic modding costs
Realistic Insurance costs

Con's for ZHP:
ummmm.....well I guess the lower HP? I don't know....... I personally would of loved an SMG option (i know I know, people here hate that but I LOVED LOVED LOVED my SMG and felt like a formula 1 driver especially in the twisty mountains we have around Phoenix)

[Jon D]

I will speak from personal experience from owning both a 2002 E46 M3 and my current 2004 ZHP.

Con's for ZHP:
ummmm.....well I guess the lower HP? I don't know....... I personally would of loved an SMG option (i know I know, people here hate that but I LOVED LOVED LOVED my SMG and felt like a formula 1 driver especially in the twisty mountains we have around Phoenix)


I can honestly say if my vert was a real SMG not an auto I would be a lot less tempted to want to upgrade.

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[az3579]

That gif had me rolling NewJack! Haha.

In all seriousness, its up to you to buy what you want. Me? I'd keep the ZHP, save the $5000, s54 swap. 4 doors FTW.

The second you throw S54 swap into the mix, you're already spending more than the $5000 you're supposedly saving for a car that still isn't up to M3 standards (suspension, body, etc.).

[cakM3]

I was doing some calculations
for an additional 5000 or three months of savings
I can get a low mileage M3 from car max 53k-80k miles
vs the zhp

if you could wait the three months and save the additionl 5k necessary to get the loan
would you?

or would you just get the ZHP for the 5k lower price now?

I have both :biggrin

If you're looking for pros/cons.... then look at bullfrogs_M3's post above :thumbsup

[Avetiso]

Diverse, I'm not trying to be critical, but your posts are very broken and hard to read. Seriously. I find it difficult to figure out what you are asking most of the time. To promote a healthier discussion, please try to make your posts more coherent.

If you are building a car through modification, I would go with swapping in the engine instead of buying the ///M because most things you replace, you will upgrade it better than OEM ///M, such as suspension, bushings, etc. If you buying the cars outright, it makes no sense to buy the ZHP if you want the S54. Just buy an ///M.

[QC_ZHP]

The second you throw S54 swap into the mix, you're already spending more than the $5000 you're supposedly saving for a car that still isn't up to M3 standards (suspension, body, etc.).

I agree to a certain extent. There's plenty of ways to do the swap, but I'd just buy a wrecked M off copart. From there its just research and swapping parts (I say it like its so easy which I know its not.)

[diverse]

good posts guys thanks

you are right lots of reading when I google zhp vs m3 .

I thought I had read most of the zhp info but never saw this.

Thanks again.

[az3579]

^ It all comes down to what you're looking for in a car. You can't have it all, so you have to choose what's more important to you:
Lower cost $$$ or performance. :(


I so wish you could get both (in a BMW).

[M0nk3y]

I have both :biggrin

If you're looking for pros/cons.... then look at bullfrogs_M3's post above :thumbsup

+1

Just for example, raw costs of an oil change exceeds $90 just in oil and material.

Perfect example of why I stopped tracking the Z and went to the 128. Rotors, tires, brakes...etc are all additional cost over normal.

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[diverse]

I will speak from personal experience from owning both a 2002 E46 M3 and my current 2004 ZHP.

When I first got into the BMW brand, it was with my wife and buying her a 3.0 X5. We loved that thing and at the time I had a clean title heavily modded 270WHP Grand Prix GTP. So I started to do some looking around for a new car and originally found that I really really like the ZHP over the M3. However after test driving a Dinan badged SMG M3, I was sold and ended up buying it that day. The power that an M3 has is absolutely incredible!!! It is raw but checked and subtle (depending on mods of course) but when you want to drive it as a drivers car, it is more than willing to let you drop the hammer and ask if you have anything else to throw at it. I ended doing some subtle mods to the car. JIC Coilovers, UUC Sways, (kept the Dinan mods, exhaust, intakes, software), Euro SMG flash and wheels. This thing was planted, firm in every corner I threw it at and took off like a bat outta hell. BUT..... I was currently driving about 75 miles/day on it for a local job and the miles added up quick in 2 years. That being said, the maintenance cost started to go up and up. Before I threw in the towel I was looking at having to drop 3-4K out of my pocket for a steering issue(it constantly felt like I was on ice on a clear dry summer day) and other internal issues.

Before I threw in the towel I actively started looking at my first choice the ZHP. I was lucky enough to find this one with all my options I set out for (Black, Natural Brown, 6MT, low low mileage). After having owned this car for longer than I have owned any car I have ever had, I can honestly say this is the best thing I have driven, PERIOD. My maintenance costs are reasonable (when i actually DO take it in, which is only twice since i've owned the car) and my mods, while subtle and many are very reasonably priced as well. I couldn't say those two statements at all when I owned the M3, that car commands a higher premium for parts/labor/etc. over the standard E46. This should ABSOLUTELY be what you take into consideration when thinking about the M3. Seriously, find an M3 online, then spec out the list of things you want to do to it, exterior, interior and engine. Then do the same with a non-M3 and compare pricing.

I also really appreciate the insurance aspect of the ZHP over the M3. When I had the M, it was a sports car coupe which drove my insurance up considerably. But with this, it is only classified as a sedan and those additional OEM performance options we have are not taken into consideration (or at least with my insurance buddy).

All said and done:

Pro's for M3:
Power, Power, Power
Instantly recognizable as a performance car. PERIOD

Con's for M3:
Maintenance costs are high (at my time of ownership)
Mod costs are high
Insurance costs are high (depending on age and state of course)

Pro's for ZHP:
Realistic maintenance costs
Realistic modding costs
Realistic Insurance costs

Con's for ZHP:
ummmm.....well I guess the lower HP? I don't know....... I personally would of loved an SMG option (i know I know, people here hate that but I LOVED LOVED LOVED my SMG and felt like a formula 1 driver especially in the twisty mountains we have around Phoenix)

This was awesome.
Yes my original motivation, when deciding which car to purchase, was cost of ownership. I needed it to be as low as possible.
I did not want to look back see that I had spent crazy cash on my m3.

After driving one I fell in love with the ride
unfortunately the zhp I purchased and am waiting for is an automatic.

my fear is that I wont like it as much
I should possibly have held out for a manual.

In any case
I did love your explanation of your experiences in both rides.

I have heard the sentiment echoed from others that have owned both cars
that they have either returned to zhp or went from m3 and other m cars and came without regret to zhp.

very interesting. I cant wait till mine delivers so I can test drive it finally.

[diverse]

+1

Just for example, raw costs of an oil change exceeds $90 just in oil and material.

Perfect example of why I stopped tracking the Z and went to the 128. Rotors, tires, brakes...etc are all additional cost over normal.

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Thanks monk3y I have seen several posts from people who have owned both. Ultimately It seems that if money is no object, then get the M3

However, if you are using it as a daily driver and plan on packing on the miles get ready to shell out some serious cash.

Some other people said if you have to stretch to buy the m3 get the zhp you wont be disappointed.

Some other things to think about is that the steering seems to be better than the m3 which should give you some driving feedback from the vehicle.

For me, Money is an object right now. I have other business objectives in the next few years and I was hoping this next car would be as trouble free as possible.

It seems the zhp fits the perfect compromise for reliability and performance.

although not as fast still fun
cheaper to maintain. and has its own steering character that is one of the best Bmw has made.

Also the exhaust note was mentioned a lot.

I have learned a lot in the short time I have been here.

[Pip]

Definitely get the ZHP if money is an object. It is much easy to maintain and still an extremely fun car. I drove an a4, s4, and s5 and besides the power the zhp was more fun to drive. The ZHP is just as fun to drive as the M except when hitting the gas pedal in a turn or straight so not much lost in a daily driver. The steering felt slightly better in the ZHP, but the M feels more planted. A pleasurable exhaust note was easy to achieve in the Z with a tse3. The M is a little harder because there are so many options and almost all add some level of drone. There are lots of others, but the mafia has touched on them.

[cakM3]

Definitely get the ZHP if money is an object. It is much easy to maintain and still an extremely fun car. I drove an a4, s4, and s5 and besides the power the zhp was more fun to drive. The ZHP is just as fun to drive as the M except when hitting the gas pedal in a turn or straight so not much lost in a daily driver. The steering felt slightly better in the ZHP, but the M feels more planted. A pleasurable exhaust note was easy to achieve in the Z with a tse3. The M is a little harder because there are so many options and almost all add some level of drone. There are lots of others, but the mafia has touched on them.

+1, I agree with Sean here...

The ZHP actually has a tighter steering rack than the ///M so it handles just as nimbly as the ///M does if not slightly better. The ///M is a well-balanced car and has lot's of raw power...

[Crickett]

I fought with this dilemma, too, when I was looking for my car. I love my ZHP but keep getting drawn to the M3’s higher performance … what I think I’ve settled on is keeping the ZHP as a phenomenal daily driver and eventually getting a Z4M roadster for a weekend toy. Best of both worlds!

[NorCalZman]

I think the fact that the ZHP is compared to the M3 so often despite its horsepower deficit speaks pretty highly of the ZHP.

[Vas]

Lmao at this thread

[Newjack]

Lmao at this thread

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s5KLvZmbFfg/T8UdebIMcEI/AAAAAAAABQ4/XaSWcVsnfmM/s200/ryan-pointing-the-office.gif

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[JKO_ZHP]

:rofl

Thinking a new record for most created threads in a week of membership...

Sent from my GS3.

+1
OP I would definitely take 346 M3s over a single ZHP any day of the week.

[diverse]

All very good points. cost of ownership is definitely a concern
as I am looking to pay off student loans.
as well as saving money

I appreciate the honest opinons

I have never ever owned a BMW before it has always been a desire to own one.
My zhp is arriving end of next week and I am probably going through last minute buyers remorse

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e147/Steven_Maduro/photo2_zps75dbb94a.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Steven_Maduro/media/photo2_zps75dbb94a.jpg.html)

so making the right decision is very important as there is a lot of money on the line.

I apologize for those who feel this post thread is lame.
But it has been immensely helpful to me.

[Avetiso]

Bump for some down right ratchet forum posts. This thread should go into the hall of fame.

[OtterEffect]

Bump for some down right ratchet forum posts. This thread should go into the hall of fame.

:rofl some serious gold in here

[terraphantm]

I've owned both. The M3 engine is much better -- more torque at ever RPM, and you get an extra 1200 RPMs to play with. M3's suspension also lasts longer -- most of the bushings are tougher. M3 cooling system is also much more reliable -- I've never heard of an expansion tank failure or radiator failure. Water pump failures are extremely rare. VANOS, rod bearing, and subframe issues are all concerns. VANOS can be fixed permanently. Rod bearings are a 100k maintenance item. Subframe -- jury's still out, but I think the foam is a permanent fix if done early enough.

The actual ride quality of the M3 isn't much worse than a ZHP, but all the controls are just stiffer. Steering is stiffer despite the slower rack, clutch pedal requires a lot more effort, gear lever is clunkier, and the gas/brake need a lot more finesse to drive smoothly. By and large, the car is more exhausting to drive on long trips. The ZHP also definitely got better gas mileage. I used to be able to get 30+ mpg while cruising at 80mph all day. With the M3, I can only get that kind of mileage if I drive really slow, never rev it out, etc.

[danewilson77]

Thanks Terra.

Fella's, let's not dog on forum posts here and dig up old posts you think aren't worthy.

I'd like to think everyone has a voice here.

I appreciate the cooperation.