Suspension Refresh Options

[gmurphy]

Hello everyone. Excuse me if this has been done before but my car is coming up to a point where I think it would be of best interest to refresh the suspension. With all of the options out there, I would like to hear what everyone is running on their car. I live in Lincoln,NE and the roads are ok but they are not great. I am looking for better than stock performance without the cost of breaking my back while driving :). I wouldn't mind lowering the car a little either so please feel free to post what you have and or would recommend. Thank you in advance and I look forward to reading your posts.


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[slater]

hey garry,

i haven't done anything with mine yet, but based on previous chassis tuning experience (a lot), and research i've done on the E46 suspension thus far, here's what i would do for my own car for a great daily driver:

- OE ZHP springs
- koni yellows with external adjust rears
- front strut brace
- front and rear strut tower reinforcements
- new rear strut mounts (upgraded units)
- new lemfoerder front LCAs
- poly FCABs
- poly swaybar bushings front + rear
- new swaybar endlinks front + rear
- spherical RTABs
- OE M3 RCABs
- poly rear subframe mounts
- poly rear diff mounts (softest durometer available)
- AKG 'street' trans mounts
- replace guibo
- rebuild shifter linkage

that oughta do it for about 10 years. :)

peter

[Hermes]

Currently running UUC Swaybarbarian, Koni STR.T/H&R Cup kit, rough road package strut reinforcement plates. Will be installing BMW Performance CF strut brace, and Z4 M thrust bushings. Long term plan is TC Kline Smartdesign D/A coilover

[NorCalZman]

with those strut reinforcement plates and your strut brace, did you have to use longer screws(?)

[Avetiso]

Garry, you need to tell us more about what you are looking for from your suspension and from your car in general. That will help with feedback.

[gmurphy]

Garry, you need to tell us more about what you are looking for from your suspension and from your car in general. That will help with feedback.

Whoops OP updated :)


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[Avetiso]

Okay, here's what I would recommend:

Koni Yellow all around. They are having a sale right now.
H&R springs, sport or race (up to you).
Strut reinforcement plates.
AKG RTABS + limiters
AKG FCABS
AKG steering coupler
OEM diff bushings
M3 transmission bushings
OEM engine mounts
New RSM (OEM or AKG or solid aluminum)

New control arms if necessary.

OR

Everything in that listen minus the Koni's and the springs and replace with coilovers. KW, ST, Bilstein, or Ground Control are great brands that will blend comfort and performance well.

[gmurphy]

Fantastic responses so far thank you everyone!


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[Hermes]

with those strut reinforcement plates and your strut brace, did you have to use longer screws(?)

No, stock fits fine.

[QC_ZHP]

I'd base your bushing choice (poly vs OEM) on your plans for the car. Polys can be a bit unforgiving at times.

[Newjack]

I refreshed my suspension last year. Best mod I've done to my car thus far. I went with an H&R touring cup kit. Lowers the car just enough so it doesn't look stock, isn't too stiff (progressive springs) and wont kill your back when daily driving.

I refreshed my control arms and bushings. Went with Z4M RTAB's along with Vorshlag RTAB limiters. Car is extremely tight and handles great. The only thing I would do to it is maybe sway bars and better tires. (I run Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+'s)


Touring cup kit claims a lowering of 1.25" front and .75" in the rear. It seems slightly more for me. I drive in DC where roads are Armageddon and it handles fine. I wouldn't go any lower where I live or I would need a new front bumper every 3 months.

[gmurphy]

Well after searching online I found a picture of a 325i with H&R springs with Koni sport shocks. I have to say it looks fantastic. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/15/2adega5a.jpg


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[gmurphy]

I refreshed my suspension last year. Best mod I've done to my car thus far. I went with an H&R touring cup kit. Lowers the car just enough so it doesn't look stock, isn't too stiff (progressive springs) and wont kill your back when daily driving.

I refreshed my control arms and bushings. Went with Z4M RTAB's along with Vorshlag RTAB limiters. Car is extremely tight and handles great. The only thing I would do to it is maybe sway bars and better tires. (I run Michelin Pilot Sport A/S+'s)


Touring cup kit claims a lowering of 1.25" front and .75" in the rear. It seems slightly more for me. I drive in DC where roads are Armageddon and it handles fine. I wouldn't go any lower where I live or I would need a new front bumper every 3 months.

Another good option. Thank you


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[QC_ZHP]

Well after searching online I found a picture of a 330i with H&R springs with Koni sport shocks. I have to say it looks fantastic. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/15/2adega5a.jpg


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Are those 18s or 19s

[gmurphy]

Are those 18s or 19s

19s


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[Newjack]

Well after searching online I found a picture of a 330i with H&R springs with Koni sport shocks. I have to say it looks fantastic. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/15/2adega5a.jpg


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Rovert?!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4v4pzYl7a1r3zat8.gif

[gmurphy]

Rovert?!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4v4pzYl7a1r3zat8.gif

It is a e46 fanatics member's car. User wicked_ink
Edit: also it is a 325i I believe

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[Newjack]

Rovert...

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/876/img6880a.jpg

[gmurphy]

Rovert...

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/876/img6880a.jpg

That's pretty close!


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[Newjack]

That's pretty close!


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God recently reclaimed his chariot.

[gmurphy]

God recently reclaimed his chariot.

I know :( really unfortunate. He had a beautiful Ultimate Driving Machine.


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[gmurphy]

Okay, here's what I would recommend:

Koni Yellow all around. They are having a sale right now.
H&R springs, sport or race (up to you).
Strut reinforcement plates.
AKG RTABS + limiters
AKG FCABS
AKG steering coupler
OEM diff bushings
M3 transmission bushings
OEM engine mounts
New RSM (OEM or AKG or solid aluminum)

New control arms if necessary.

OR

Everything in that listen minus the Koni's and the springs and replace with coilovers. KW, ST, Bilstein, or Ground Control are great brands that will blend comfort and performance well.

Thank you.


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[gmurphy]

hey garry,

i haven't done anything with mine yet, but based on previous chassis tuning experience (a lot), and research i've done on the E46 suspension thus far, here's what i would do for my own car for a great daily driver:

- OE ZHP springs
- koni yellows with external adjust rears
- front strut brace
- front and rear strut tower reinforcements
- new rear strut mounts (upgraded units)
- new lemfoerder front LCAs
- poly FCABs
- poly swaybar bushings front + rear
- new swaybar endlinks front + rear
- spherical RTABs
- OE M3 RCABs
- poly rear subframe mounts
- poly rear diff mounts (softest durometer available)
- AKG 'street' trans mounts
- replace guibo
- rebuild shifter linkage

that oughta do it for about 10 years. :)

peter

Excellent list thank you.


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[gmurphy]

So as far as shocks go I think I have decided on the Koni Yellows. They seem to be a nice compromise between better than OE sportiness and everyday usability. I am torn between the springs though. However, I am leaning towards H&R Sport springs..plus all of the other stuff everyone has suggested. Thank you again.


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[LivesNearCostco]

I like Slater's list but not sure you need spherical RTABs in the back. I haven't tried them but they seem to be something only a racer or hard core time trial/autocross car would need. I would do OEM M3 RTABs with limiters that you can get from Vorshlag, Ground Control, Turner, AKG, etc. Somebody (Turner? BimmerWorld?) recently came up with a new RTAB that is really a sealed OEM control arm ball joint in a special carrier -- basically a spherical joint that is sealed for low maintenance. At least the theory behind that sounds good to me.

Anyway, If you're so hard-core that you want spherical RTABs then you could also upgrade all the control arm bushings to ball joints or bearing. Normally the 4 inners are bushings, the outer uppers are ball joints and outer lowers are bushings (outer lowers are ball joints on E46 M3). Slater's list includes upgrading the outer lowers to ball joint. The outer bushings are around $15 each and the ball joints $40 each for Lemfoerder ($60 each for genuine BMW). The inner bushings have no OEM ball-joint equivalent, so upgrading those to bearings costs at lot more. [Edit: I recently bought new control arm bushings and ball joints and am thinking of changing outer lower bushings to ball joints for an extra $80.]

It's also my opinion that the front strut brace offers only a small improvement in handling, but it is the 2nd-most visible suspension mod (after a drop), so it has good bling factor (and can help protect the strut towers).

hey garry,

i haven't done anything with mine yet, but based on previous chassis tuning experience (a lot), and research i've done on the E46 suspension thus far, here's what i would do for my own car for a great daily driver:

- OE ZHP springs
- koni yellows with external adjust rears
- front strut brace
- front and rear strut tower reinforcements
- new rear strut mounts (upgraded units)
- new lemfoerder front LCAs
- poly FCABs
- poly swaybar bushings front + rear
- new swaybar endlinks front + rear
- spherical RTABs
- OE M3 RCABs
- poly rear subframe mounts
- poly rear diff mounts (softest durometer available)
- AKG 'street' trans mounts
- replace guibo
- rebuild shifter linkage

that oughta do it for about 10 years. :)
peter

[tkundhi]

Garry,

I think you should consider one other option, coilovers. There are several cost effective ($1000) and well made coilovers these days. BC Racing, ISC are two plus Dario mentioned CaTuned in different thread. These kits generally come with camber plates and all the necessary hardware. Price wise these kits are about the same or less than traditional springs and struts. Plus they are much easier to DIY as you won't need a spring compressor. For the rest of the suspension, I say just replace your bushings with new OE stuff. No need to deal with the potential downsides of poly bushings for your intended use. Finally get a proper alignment after the parts are replaced. Discuss your driving and objectives with whomever is doing the alignment. You would be surprised how small adjustments translate in different car behavior.

In addition to picking out your parts consider the install. Do you have the tools and skills to do it? If not consult the shop you plan to use before you go buying parts. While some shops will allow you to supply parts they typically want to know they are quality parts. Parts they would install themselves. Most shops will not put their reputation on the line by installing a product they think you may not be satisfied with down the road. A messy situation gets created when the customer complains about the car after install. The shop says that is the product and of course the vendor that sold the product says something is wrong with the install or the part was damaged.

Another thing to consider is the install cost. There is a local guy that bought a bunch upgraded bushings for his 135. Basically he wants it to be a 1M. Turns out a factory tool is required to replace some of the bushings. The tool is several thousand dollars. So no local independent has it. The independents aren't willing to jerry rig something that could damage the bushings or the carrier. The dealer is qouting $1500+ labor to do the job. I have no idea what this guy's going to do. Whatever he decides is the right decision for him. But I can think of much better ways to spend $2k than for some 1M bushings.

t.

[Newjack]

For reference, RTAB's for the Z4M fit the ZHP like LivesNearCostco mentioned. I have them on my car. I also have RTAB limiters from Vorshlag.

You can buy both limiters and bushing from Vorshlag HERE (http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_8_29&products_id=515)


Also just another point of information. I made a thread HERE (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?9818-Complete-suspension-refresh-(opinions-needed)&p=272121#post272121) when I did redid my suspension. There was a lot of good input from other members here and I linked the items that I ended up going with on my car. Hopefully this can help you make a decision.

[gmurphy]

For reference, RTAB's for the Z4M fit the ZHP like LivesNearCostco mentioned. I have them on my car. I also have RTAB limiters from Vorshlag.

You can buy both limiters and bushing from Vorshlag HERE (http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_8_29&products_id=515)


Also just another point of information. I made a thread HERE (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?9818-Complete-suspension-refresh-(opinions-needed)&p=272121#post272121) when I did redid my suspension. There was a lot of good input from other members here and I linked the items that I ended up going with on my car. Hopefully this can help you make a decision.

Thank you


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[JupiterBMW]

Hey Garry!! Just wanted to drop into this thread and leave some info... I got your PM but this was easier.. :biggrin Anyway, for those curious, Garry asked about my setup because he liked my stance. As for refresh options, what others have said are great recommendations. For me, I actually have a 100% stock setup except for H&R Sport front springs. Why only the fronts? I wanted to just level out my wheel gap for the time being. I am still unsure of what stuff I want to install as well, and now that the fronts are on lowering springs, I can feel the bounce in my stock struts. That is to be expected as OE shocks aren't meant for stiffer lowering springs, but for now its ok. I do so little driving and Florida roads are so nice where I am, its not a big deal.

Anyway, my planned setup will most likely be all OEM bushings and whatnot, with only the addition of a new set of struts. I will most likely do the Z4M FCABs and RTABs as people seem to be saying they're a great 'upgrade' for an OEM part. I don't want the squeakiness of poly bushings, so I'll stick with rubber. Struts? I'm leaning towards Bilstein, but someone told me his car was bouncy, so perhaps I'll just get a full H&R cup kit...

Anyway, good luck and hope my input helped a little...

[gmurphy]

Hey Garry!! Just wanted to drop into this thread and leave some info... I got your PM but this was easier.. :biggrin Anyway, for those curious, Garry asked about my setup because he liked my stance. As for refresh options, what others have said are great recommendations. For me, I actually have a 100% stock setup except for H&R Sport front springs. Why only the fronts? I wanted to just level out my wheel gap for the time being. I am still unsure of what stuff I want to install as well, and now that the fronts are on lowering springs, I can feel the bounce in my stock struts. That is to be expected as OE shocks aren't meant for stiffer lowering springs, but for now its ok. I do so little driving and Florida roads are so nice where I am, its not a big deal.

Anyway, my planned setup will most likely be all OEM bushings and whatnot, with only the addition of a new set of struts. I will most likely do the Z4M FCABs and RTABs as people seem to be saying they're a great 'upgrade' for an OEM part. I don't want the squeakiness of poly bushings, so I'll stick with rubber. Struts? I'm leaning towards Bilstein, but someone told me his car was bouncy, so perhaps I'll just get a full H&R cup kit...

Anyway, good luck and hope my input helped a little...

Good stuff thank you sir!


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[PirateZHP]

Garry, whatever you end up with for struts and springs, keep us posted. My car has had about 1/2 of a refresh, so I'll be looking for strut/springs... maybe coilovers...

[gmurphy]

Garry, whatever you end up with for struts and springs, keep us posted. My car has had about 1/2 of a refresh, so I'll be looking for strut/springs... maybe coilovers...

Will do! I am currently leaning towards Koni Yellows with H&R sport springs. This setup appears (from what I have seen anyway) to lower the car just enough for my liking and the shocks should replicate OEM performance while adding a little more zest. Koni also has a great warranty for their products which draws me to them even more. However, I am no where near settled yet. I keep looking at everything that was suggested spring and shock wise and am still considering all of those options too. Does anyone currently run the Koni and H&R setup? I know Smolck has (or had) Koni Yellows but I don't know what spring he is using currently.


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[Headmaster]

If you are DIYing it I'd recommend the assembled h&r /bile stir kit from turner. I just did mine, new zhp CA's, fcabs, limiters all around and rear subframe bushings and mounts all around. It's a new car....ride height is similar to the 325 above and the ride is great with progressive springs. Just watch out for speed bumps and potholes...
http://youtu.be/vE6Jpd2TxWY


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[gmurphy]

What's the verdict on the H&R Touring Cup Kit? Newjack you still liking it? How does it ride?


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[gmurphy]

If you are DIYing it I'd recommend the assembled h&r /bile stir kit from turner. I just did mine, new zhp CA's, fcabs, limiters all around and rear subframe bushings and mounts all around. It's a new car....ride height is similar to the 325 above and the ride is great with progressive springs. Just watch out for speed bumps and potholes...
http://youtu.be/vE6Jpd2TxWY


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We have quite a few potholes which scares me with a lowered car! Hilarious video! :rofl


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[Newjack]

What's the verdict on the H&R Touring Cup Kit? Newjack you still liking it? How does it ride?


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I love my touring cup kit. The springs are progressive so it handles like stock until you start to throw it around. Then you really notice the extra stiffness. Its low enough that you can see a decent drop on the car without sacrificing drivability in my area. I work on DC and ive seen potholes so big you can swim in them, a sport cup kit would be awesome looking but too low and would ruin my front bumper almost daily.

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[slater]

personally... and i speak from zero experience with them on a BMW platform, but i have used H&R springs in the past on various cars and have had bad experiences.

the springs are progressive - some like this, personally i do not. the car isn't as predictable in transitions as with linear springs (like the OE springs), and H&R's seem to be too low and too soft.

again, no experience on BMWs with these - i just don't like their philosophy. if i was going to lower my ZHP, i would likely go with a coilover setup (like KW) if the springs were linear, otherwise eibach springs (typically linear) and definitely koni yellows.

for shocks + struts, bilsteins have great durability but are typically too harsh on compression and too soft on rebound - again, to me. ;)

peter

[KevinC]

I did my car shortly after buying it 2 years ago at 52k miles. My ZHP is my "comfy" car so I chose to keep the suspension components stock, and went with the OEM equivalent Sachs/Boge dampers, and OEM FCABs and RTABs. If I had it to do all over again, I would probably go with Bilstein HDs, as they'll last forever, and are more firm than this stock setup. At some point I'll also switch to Z4M FCABs, which I know firsthand would be a nice upgrade, now that I know they're compatible with the ZHP. The steering is scalpel-sharp in the Z4MC, and it would be nice to get some of that better feel into the ZHP.

One thing's for sure, this current setup is a comfortable one, especially on the pool-table-smooth roads here in Arizona.

[tkundhi]

personally... and i speak from zero experience with them on a BMW platform, but i have used H&R springs in the past on various cars and have had bad experiences.

the springs are progressive - some like this, personally i do not. the car isn't as predictable in transitions as with linear springs (like the OE springs), and H&R's seem to be too low and too soft.

again, no experience on BMWs with these - i just don't like their philosophy. if i was going to lower my ZHP, i would likely go with a coilover setup (like KW) if the springs were linear, otherwise eibach springs (typically linear) and definitely koni yellows.

for shocks + struts, bilsteins have great durability but are typically too harsh on compression and too soft on rebound - again, to me. ;)

peter

Most aftermarket springs are progressive including H&R Sport Springs & Eibach Pro-Kit. These are both popular in the BMW world. H&R makes linear springs if that is what you are after. I'm not sure about Eibach.

Don't assume coilovers will come with liner springs. Many use progressive springs also as high rate linear spring are too stiff for many drivers. KW for example uses both linear and progressive. Also some coilover configurations will use on type up front and the other in the rear. If linear springs are desired be sure to specifically discuss with the vendor. Many of these new inexpensive coilovers will allow you to specify spring rates for a small upgrade price.

Finally match your damping to the selected springs. I don't agree that you can make generalizations based upon brand alone. If desired you can get custom valves shocks/struts. All its takes is $. FYI, that is what people line Dinan & TC Kline do. They have the dampers valved to their specs.

t.

[Avetiso]

CaTuned coils (that I will be running) are a matched set, for example. Valved for their specs and spring rates.

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[Newjack]

CaTuned coils (that I will be running) are a matched set, for example. Valved for their specs and spring rates.

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Another reason I went with a cup kit. Time was a factor for me and I knew that the shocks and springs in the cup kit were designed specifically to work with each other.

Not that other brands of springs and shocks aren't compatible, but it took a lot of guesswork out for me.

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[Smolck]

So as far as shocks go I think I have decided on the Koni Yellows. They seem to be a nice compromise between better than OE sportiness and everyday usability. I am torn between the springs though. However, I am leaning towards H&R Sport springs..plus all of the other stuff everyone has suggested. Thank you again.


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Fantastic choice! Konis can be used at any ride height too, so you can go as low as you need to. H&R sports are excellent as well. I am looking at race springs because the koni goes stiff enough you can eliminate some of the bounce.

[slater]

Most aftermarket springs are progressive including H&R Sport Springs & Eibach Pro-Kit. These are both popular in the BMW world. H&R makes linear springs if that is what you are after. I'm not sure about Eibach.

Don't assume coilovers will come with liner springs. Many use progressive springs also as high rate linear spring are too stiff for many drivers. KW for example uses both linear and progressive. Also some coilover configurations will use on type up front and the other in the rear. If linear springs are desired be sure to specifically discuss with the vendor. Many of these new inexpensive coilovers will allow you to specify spring rates for a small upgrade price.

Finally match your damping to the selected springs. I don't agree that you can make generalizations based upon brand alone. If desired you can get custom valves shocks/struts. All its takes is $. FYI, that is what people line Dinan & TC Kline do. They have the dampers valved to their specs.

t.

i think you maybe misread my post. i said 'if' they (coilovers) came with linear springs - i've been around long enough to know what's what and what i'm looking for. no assuming going on.

eibach's pro-kit line is almost always linear. their 'sportline' springs tend to be progressive. here's a pic of E46 pro-kits:

http://www.ebaypowerhouse.com/photo/carparts-paradise/eibach%20federn%20pro%20kit%20bmw%20e46%206cyl%202 .jpg

and yes - matched damping is key. that's the nice part about good coilovers - and i have loved the ST/KW V1s on my B5 Audi A4 Avant - is the wonderful symmetry of the damping vs spring rate. they do a really nice job with damping.

peter

[Burrogs]

For reference, RTAB's for the Z4M fit the ZHP like LivesNearCostco mentioned. I have them on my car. I also have RTAB limiters from Vorshlag.

You can buy both limiters and bushing from Vorshlag HERE (http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_8_29&products_id=515)


Also just another point of information. I made a thread HERE (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?9818-Complete-suspension-refresh-(opinions-needed)&p=272121#post272121) when I did redid my suspension. There was a lot of good input from other members here and I linked the items that I ended up going with on my car. Hopefully this can help you make a decision.

I'm running this setup as well with positive results.

[gmurphy]

Has anybody had any experience with the Dinan springs?


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[ChrisCSL#25]

I hope this thread hasn't died. I just found out that I need lower control arm bushings (L & R). Bavarian Autosport offers polys and OEM. I wouldn't mind spending the extra dollars on the ploys. How much more unforgiving are we talking about? Would you recommend using polys on the LCAs if you do not do any other upgrades on the front suspension? My intention is not to race or track this car beyond the HPDE this August.

[Hermes]

Z4 M bushings

[Newjack]

Z4 M bushings

+1

[alexandre]

I have an order in for OEM FCAB but it hasn't shipped yet. What's up with Z4M bushings ? Not much material online.

EDIT: Found them prepressed. 31107836862 and 31107836863. $112 for the Genuine BMW pair over $93 for OEM bushings in Lemfoerder. So those are a direct fit ?

[danewilson77]

There's always this.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?5173-Z4M-Solid-rubber-offset-bushings!

[alexandre]

There's always this.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?5173-Z4M-Solid-rubber-offset-bushings!

Thanks boss. Canceled OEM and went with Z4M. :)

[Vas]

What about something like this?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-4795-e46-325330ici-04-06-assembled-hrbilstein-sport-suspension-package.aspx

Complete, Assembled E46 Suspension Package includes:
(1) Set of Bilstein Sport Shocks - click to view
(1) Set of H&R Sport Springs -
(2) Front Upper Strut Bearings or optional Vorshlag Camber Plates
(2) Front Upper Spring Perches
(2) Front Dust Protect Boots w/ integral cupped washers
(2) Front Lower Spring Pads
(2) Front Upper Spring Pads
(2) Front Upper Support Washers
(6) Flange Nuts (for front strut mounts)
(2) Lifetime Warranty "Repair Shop" Rear Shocks Mounts
(2) Rear Shock Mount Gaskets
(2) Rear Upper Cupped Washer Plates
(2) Rear Lower Cupped Washer Plates
(2) Rear Spacer Rings
(2) Rear Top Nut Washer

[slater]

Thanks boss. Canceled OEM and went with Z4M. :)

my only concern with those is it changing the wheel's location in the wheel well. would you not want to install the bushing with the control arm hole oriented as low as possible? with the Z4M position is seems like to pushes the wheel further into the wheel well.

peter

[Hermes]

They've been installed on the red car for over a year, no issues. They will be installed on the blue car once I have time

Also - they don't change the vertical position of the thrust arm, only it's position relative to the frame rail. The offset is closer to the outside of the car and therefore pushes the wheel closer to the front of the car increasing your caster

[slater]

correct, but in doing so does it not push the wheel further IN, as well as forward?

peter

[Hermes]

It doesn't move that way much, when you get alignment it's fine

[NorCalZman]

I have been trying to learn about these CABs since I have bought the car. So we have OEM e46 inc. ZHP (gel filled), Z4M offset solid rubber, Meyle centered solid rubber, and poly. I looked at a picture of the M3 solid rubber and the carrier looked a bit different. I guess this isnt a case where "upgrading" to M3 parts is possible?

The roads in California are absolutely horrible. From what I read, going to anything stiffer than OEM might cause more vibration through the wheel.

[QC_ZHP]

I want to try these bad boys out

http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerworld-e46e36-3-series-and-z4-rear-trailing-arm-bearing-kit-p2138.aspx

[Vas]

Those look intense.

[orange260z]

Just took a peek on Eibach's website. The say that both the Pro-Kit and Sportlines are progressive rate.

I remember I had Sportlines on my Miata many years ago, and I'm pretty sure they were linear at the time. Most of my Miata friends had the Pro-Kits, and next to theirs my car was SLAMMED. The ride was quite a bit firmer, too, on the same Tokico shocks (I tried KYBs first to save money, but got rid of them pretty quick).

Unless I was building a track-only car, I would stay away from a lot of poly bushings due to the lack of compliance (which, in the north, you typically need some of) and the squeaking. I replaced most of the bushings in the 911 with OE rubber, except for the one I was forced to use poly on (spring plate) because of the adjustable unit I wanted.

That said, one little trick I found was to replace all of the rubber in the sway bar (bushings, endlinks, etc) with poly - you end up getting a significant benefit of upgraded sway bars just by using the bushings to work the stock ones harder. The bar may eventually break from the added stress, but you were willing to pay to replace it anyway, right? My Miata bars never broke after 4 years of track and autocross use.

Just some thoughts...

[Hermes]

While I generally agree with the above point I do have an exception to that. While a modern sports car like a ZHP will eventually have overkill from too much poly bushings, an old chassis code that didn't have as firm a suspension to begin with will benefit from them.

What I'm basically saying is I'm not installing poly bushings on my ZHP, but the E21 and E10 will be getting the full poly treatment as I've already installed all new stock bushings on both cars and it's not good enough yet for my taste.

[orange260z]

Hermes,

I completely agree that personal taste and tolerance is a huge factor in your choice of bushings (and suspension upgrades), along with intended use, and road conditions in your area.

Are you adding any chassis stiffening to your E21 and E10 cars?

I know with my 911 another point of consideration was that a 40 year old car is nowhere near as stiff as a modern car, so without chassis modifications (such as roll cages, triangulation and gusseting) a lot of the flex in the car, is the car itself (even in a non-sunroof coupe like mine). And the stiffer I make the suspension, the more I'm making the chassis unibody act as the suspension and I'm not sure that's a good thing. Personally, I made the choice to go softer BECAUSE it's an older chassis.

Anyway, that's the neat thing about our car hobby - everyone has different approaches to doing things, and no one way is right - it's all about what's right for you! :cheers

[Hermes]

Both cars are on Bilstein Sports

320i has Suspension Technique springs, Suspension Technique swaybars, Ground Control Strut Brace, all new factory bushings.

2002 is on Ireland Engineering street springs/have and will be installing race, Ireland Engineering swaybars, Mason Engineering Strut Brace, all new factory bushings

Both car have new tie rods and control arms, rack bushings for the 320 and box/idler bushings for the 02. E21 will soon be getting early big bearing front tubes with Koni Specials and 323i vented rotor/calipers, as well as the rear getting Koni's but currently staying with drums as I haven't found 323i trailing arms complete with discs yet

The only real thing left is going poly since I've already done everything and it's not stiff enough for me yet

[orange260z]

Have you thought about reinforcing the chassis (roll bar, roll cage, other braces or reinforcements)?

Sounds like you're going all out! Would be awesome to see that 2002 in action.

[Hermes]

I was not planning on an obvious cage/reinforcement. I might possibly weld in some Baur style unibody reinforcement