E46 ZHP vs. E36 M3

[mikasaur]

So I imagine many of us own or have at least driven an E36 M3 along with our ZHPs.

How do you think the two compare?

I had a convertible M3 for four years before adding a ZHP to my stable. I can compare them like this:


Comparing it to my M3 isn't really fair due to all of the upgrades I've done, but I'll do it anyways.
M3:

PSS9 Shocks/Springs
Hotchkis Anti Roll bars
Urethane FCAB
RTAB Shim kit
UUC SSK
TMS underdrive pulleys
UUC Corsa exhaust
SS brake lines
CDV delete
Subframe reinforcement
TR Motorsport C2 17x8.5 wheels

ZHP:

CDV delete


The M3 can best be described as more visceral. The clutch is heavy, the engagement point is early, and the SSK makes shifts feel like a bolt action rifle. Throttle feels direct and the response is immediate and the exhaust note is very loud, to the point of being drone-y. The firm suspension (and low CG) makes it handle superbly. It does very well in autocross against the coupes and sedans. The interior rattles and buzzes and really shows its age. The lux seats don't support you very well in turns.

The ZHP is much more quiet and more subdued. On the highway you can easily hold a conversation with your passengers, even more so when you shift into the 6th gear that the E36 just doesn't have. Acceleration seems to come on like a wave rather than a punch. The exhaust note has that characteristic straight-6 sound but it's not nearly as present as the M3. The clutch is far lighter and the stock shifter feels great but not as notchy and direct as the M3's UUC SSK. The alcantara seats provide plenty of support.


Your turn. How do you think they compare?

[Newjack]

I've had a chance to drive Cody's E36 M3 and I daily drive my ZHP. I think you nailed the comparison. Cody's M3 isn't stock so my opinion is going to be a little skewed.

As for the M3, it was about as raw a car as I have ever driven. I felt ever inch of the road that I drove over, and it could take turns a bit harder than the ZHP. The torque in the car was instant and fucking motivating. Not matter what gear you were in, when you put your foot to the floor, the car would react as if it was built to throw your head to the seat. The clutch was a little heavier but not by much. The entire time I was in the vehicle I felt like it was begging me to drive it at the limit.

The ZHP is a lot more refined. A much much smoother ride and exactly what you would look for in a daily drive that can still scare you when you beat it like a redheaded stepchild. The gearing is smoother, the interior is higher quality and more comfortable. The drive by wire gives a little lag to the throttle and the suspension isn't quite as stiff. I feel rewarded for rev matching and rowing through the gears aggressively, but when I drive the ZHP really hard I feel bad.

If the ZHP is a suit and tie, then the E36 M3 is a tuxedo T-shirt.

[QC_ZHP]

If the ZHP is a suit and tie, then the E36 M3 is a tuxedo T-shirt.
/thread. That's beautiful.

[JupiterBMW]

The M3 is square, the ZHP has curves.

Squares aren't sexy.

(Never driven an E36, they're like dinosaurs!) :biggrin

[JupiterBMW]

Although, in all seriousness, you can make this same comparison between my ZHP (in place of the E36) and our F30 (in place of the ZHP)... Kind of interesting.

[mikasaur]

The M3 is square, the ZHP has curves.

Squares aren't sexy.

My E36 would beg to differ!

http://i.imgur.com/VVlmyUa.jpg?1?1393


The drive by wire gives a little lag

This is possibly what I like least about the ZHP. Especially compared to the E36 M3 which has a heavier pedal feel and reacts instantaneously to any input. Anyone know if the E46 M3 has the same feel as the ZHP?


If the ZHP is a suit and tie, then the E36 M3 is a tuxedo T-shirt.

Haha, yes!:thumbup

[JupiterBMW]

Wow, that's like the johnrando of E36s! And your car is absolutely gorgeous... For me personally though, the E36 lines just don't do it, but just messing around.

Beautiful car man! :thumbsup

[JKO_ZHP]

Never driven one.....yet. But I decided to purchase another E46 (this current one) over the E36 M3 two years ago because despite the good things I heard about it, it just looks dated to me - I can't just like driving the car, I have to like how it looks too.
The rear LED taillights on facelift E46 coupes, the bigger wheels, the introduction of D2S bixenons, Harman Kardon sound system, etc....it got me. I'd make the same decision again if I had to today.

Although I will admit the itch to drive an E36 M3 is one that hasn't gone away even after a couple years.

[gmurphy]

I wouldn't mind a Euro-Spec E36 M3


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[328ioc]

I wouldn't mind a Euro-Spec E36 M3


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This.....or at least the euro motor.

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[TWong1200]

Before picking up my ZHP, I wanted an E36 M3/4/5. I made an offer on one that was in nice shape and couldn't come to terms with the seller. My initial, impression about it was that it wasn't very fast but handled well and brakes were fabulous. I think, though, I felt the M3 felt slow because of my Turbo'd E36 that I have in the garage that I just drove not long before the test drive of the M3. So I wasn't overly impressed. (I know, I shouldn't compare em).

I then test drove a couple of ZHPs and hey just felt much better to me. Felt tighter, accelerated quicker and handled similarly.

Just my $.02. I have no regrets not picking up the M3 and definitely no regrets picking up my ZHP last night.

[TheFinanceGuy]

I honestly wish I still have my E36- Given it was a 328 with the sport package.

98 E36 328
-H&R spring with Koni fronts, bilstien rears
-Style 68 staggered wheels
-big brake kit/slotted rotors
-Short shift
-Intake
-DME Tune
-Strut bar
-Read M3 LSD
-Underdrive pulley
-M3 exhaust

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j464/TheFinanceGuy/IMG_7166_zpsf03c0209.jpg

ZHP
-aFe Intak
-New Fluids

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j464/TheFinanceGuy/ZHP/b6228648-47f8-4437-946f-25b6ee9e900e_zps926fd046.jpg

I will say my E36 handled like it was rails, as does the ZHP. The exhaust on both cars sounds great in stock form, given my E36 had the M3 exhaust- The ZHP is more refined both inside and outside. The engine feels stronger vs E36, but my E36 felt smoother (I suspect I need engine mounts in the ZHP).

Overall- I think the two are very similar to me. My ZHP wins in my book.

[BCAN]

I drove a turbo'd E36 M once....I should've bought it, hahah. It was making around 420hp at 13psi, and the build was fantastic quality. Needless to say, it was much better than the ZHP.

[JKO_ZHP]

I honestly wish I still have my E36- Given it was a 328 with the sport package.

98 E36 328
-H&R spring with Koni fronts, bilstien rears
-Style 68 staggered wheels
-big brake kit/slotted rotors
-Short shift
-Intake
-DME Tune
-Strut bar
-Read M3 LSD
-Underdrive pulley
-M3 exhaust

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j464/TheFinanceGuy/IMG_7166_zpsf03c0209.jpg

ZHP
-aFe Intake
-New Fluids

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j464/TheFinanceGuy/ZHP/b6228648-47f8-4437-946f-25b6ee9e900e_zps926fd046.jpg

I will say my E36 handled like it was rails, as does the ZHP. The exhaust on both cars sounds great in stock form, given my E36 had the M3 exhaust- The ZHP is more refined both inside and outside. The engine feels stronger vs E36, but my E36 felt smoother (I suspect I need engine mounts in the ZHP).

Overall- I think the two are very similar to me. My ZHP wins in my book.

Fixed. :rofl

[TheFinanceGuy]

Fixed. :rofl

Um... Oops!


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[derbo]

E36 M3:

Exterior:
It definitely screams 90s and has a nice square look to it.

Interior:
Again, definitely 90s and I personally think it did not age well. It looks dated and its not a classic feel to it. Just feels ancient and old tech. Especially those LEDs that go out. Vader seats are nice but those luxury seats were terrible.

Engine:
USDM S50/S52 isn't incredibly faster but at 255hp its still better than the ZHP.

Suspension/Brakes:
Brakes are adequate and the stock suspension feels soft as it ages. A stock LSD makes a major difference.

Drivetrain:
5th gear makes highway driving with a loud exhaust a bit hard.

E46 ZHP:

Exterior:
It has all the nice M bits and it is the top of the line sedan. :)

Interior:
I think the E46 interior aged fairly well. I think the seats are more comfortable but lacking in the bolster department.

Engine:
It's definitely smoother than the S50/S52 but it lacks the top end power from the S50. I wish it could've matched the old USDM S50/2 250hp rating.

Suspension/Brakes:
These are very good stock brakes as they are the same size as the E46 M3 std sizes. I am impressed with the stock suspension of the ZHP as it was a great compromise of sportiness and comfort.

Drivetrain:
3.07 + 6spd is awesome. It should've been 3.46 though IMO with an LSD.




This is one of my favorite local E36 M3s that is track ready.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10253779_10152336459812976_6896118953429795414_n.j pg



Of course, a comparison between stock vs stock doesn't really matter too much as we all like to modify things.

Personally I think the E36 is more raw in steering and power potential. They are great base cars for track. I see more and more of them on the track and some of them I plowed through on the straights.

The ZHP is a much better daily driver as that's what a non-M was destined to be. It has the sportiness but compromises it for creature comforts.

I tried my best with my mods to make the ZHP what I felt like it should've came with from the factory (plus a few more track bits.) I put a M3 LSD, and I put suspension and brakes. I also installed a Z3M shift lever that helped lose the slop in the shifter lever. With these mods, the ZHP feels more responsive on the throttle and has the handling capibilities to rival modified E36 M3s too.

I think a E36M3 is more of a track car that you can daily but the ZHP would be alot more comfortable for that purpose.

If I had to do it all over again, would I choose an E36 M3? No. I love my ZHP cause it an underdog at the track and it's entertaining when I chase M3 of all years. The creature comforts from the E46 is alot better than the E36 and I don't think I could let go of that. An E46 M3 though..... :eeps

[Fenrir]

^^^ Well said.

[JKO_ZHP]

Wiki says the E36 M3's S50/S52 puts out 240 not 255.
Edit: Factor in about an extra 5+ years of aging (1999 was the last year for E36 M3s) and any fairly maintained ZHP will outrun the average E36 M3 unless it has been properly maintained, has been modified, parts removed to save weight, etc.

I say average since most E36 M3s I've seen in my area seem dilapidated inside and/or out.

[slater]

i drove an E36 M3 before i ever drove a ZHP, and the engine noise and throttle response had me hook, line and sinker... however, the slow steering, and non-adjustable steering column were major detractors for me (actually the latter is the #1 reason i will never own an E36).

the ZHP has much, much better ergonomics, although the tilted-to-the-left steering column takes some getting used to. the seats are very comfortable but the lateral support is lacking (i'm 6'1" 190lbs and have a 32" waist - the adjustable bolsters in the E90 seem VERY intriguing - wondering if these seats are interchangeable?).

coming from a B5 A4 1.8T, the throttle response in the ZHP is uber-quick - no need for improvement here, for me.

i feel the main points for improvement for me are the shifter (the throw is fine but the side-to-side slop is awful - even our B5 A4 1.8T's stock shifter feels more precise), and the clutch engagement (haven't done the CDV delete yet - i am hoping this makes for smoother engagement).

peter

[MiniD]

I do not miss the reliability of the E36 but they are such fun cars. I would take a stock ZHP over a stock E36 M3 when it comes to performance, looks, interior (obviously), but an E36 M3 done right can be so much fun.

I miss this car so much..98' Cosmos with a black vader interior. This car had a 6spd out of an EVO M3, 3.46 diff, 18x8.5 BBS RK, Bilstien/H&R w/ GC camber plates, and much more.

[TWong1200]

i drove an E36 M3 before i ever drove a ZHP, and the engine noise and throttle response had me hook, line and sinker... however, the slow steering, and non-adjustable steering column were major detractors for me (actually the latter is the #1 reason i will never own an E36).

the ZHP has much, much better ergonomics, although the tilted-to-the-left steering column takes some getting used to. the seats are very comfortable but the lateral support is lacking (i'm 6'1" 190lbs and have a 32" waist - the adjustable bolsters in the E90 seem VERY intriguing - wondering if these seats are interchangeable?).

coming from a B5 A4 1.8T, the throttle response in the ZHP is uber-quick - no need for improvement here, for me.

i feel the main points for improvement for me are the shifter (the throw is fine but the side-to-side slop is awful - even our B5 A4 1.8T's stock shifter feels more precise), and the clutch engagement (haven't done the CDV delete yet - i am hoping this makes for smoother engagement).

peter
The non-adjustable steering column really bothered me too. Felt like a truck.

[johnrando]

Great reviews all, never driven one. I will add though, get a Sprint Booster or Pedal Box to get rid of that drive-by - wire throttle lag. And Joop, thanks for the compliment.

[derbo]

Wiki says the E36 M3's S50/S52 puts out 240 not 255.
Edit: Factor in about an extra 5+ years of aging (1999 was the last year for E36 M3s) and any fairly maintained ZHP will outrun the average E36 M3 unless it has been properly maintained, has been modified, parts removed to save weight, etc.

I say average since most E36 M3s I've seen in my area seem dilapidated inside and/or out.

You are right. I had the impression they came with 250-255 for some reason. Anyways, being the E36 is a much lighter car, it feels a lot more nimble on the racetrack. The S50 maybe single VANOS but it is more orientated to high RPM usage. There is definitely more support for the S50 than there is for the M54 in terms of track related items.

[stephenkirsh]

What is M3/4/5?

[mikasaur]

What is M3/4/5?

M3, 4 door, 5 speed


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[OtterEffect]

M3, 4 door, 5 speed


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So that is what it means! I have been wondering that for a long time and never got around to asking.. thanks!

[328ioc]

My best data point for this is my friends Manual swapped M3....and with the auto diff (3.38) the thing smoked me on the auto x course.

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[mikasaur]

My best data point for this is my friends Manual swapped M3....and with the auto diff (3.38) the thing smoked me on the auto x course.

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If I remember correctly the M3 is nearly 10% lighter than the ZHP with the same sort of power. Combine that with a nearly 10% torque-ier LSD and you have a potent AXer.

Who had the better drive to and from though?


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