Urgent... side mirrors not working

[az3579]

So for this past week or so, my side mirrors have been literally driving me crazy.

For the past few years, my mirrors worked "ok enough" to get me by. Since they were retrofitted by one of the previous owners and they didn't do a very good job of it, the adjustments on them were pretty limited (range of motion was small). Regardless, they were still working last week.

Somewhere around the weekend timeframe, I noticed something strange about my mirrors. I looked over at one point to my passenger mirror while making a lane change and nearly had an accident. I'm used to very quickly glancing over at the mirror and making a lane change, but this time I looked at the mirror and found it was pointing straight down.

Throughout the week, I would find the mirror in the weirdest adjustments; pointing straight in toward the car or straight down. Most of the time, I would switch to reverse and the mirror would stay down when going back into first. It would stay there for the longest time until I'd randomly look up at it and find it almost back to its normal position, only pointing a lot more "inward" toward the car than I had it originally set.

I also can't adjust my mirrors. Neither of them. The window switch has no effect whatsoever on either mirror, regardless of what side the switch is set to. The mirror tilts down every time in reverse, also regardless of what side it's set to, though that is probably because of my "memory tilting" coding. I can't disable it because I don't have working DIS or SSS at the moment and can't find any options for disabling it entirely in NCS, so I'm stuck with tilting mirrors. To get around this, I pulled fuse 57 from my fusebox and manually adjusted my mirror back to where I need it, though I'm suffering without the tilt function as I use it ALL THE TIME when reversing...

Do anyone have the faintest clue as to what is going on? Searching online yielded me no firm answers; none of the scenarios people posted exactly matched mine, and even then there weren't many answers with solutions to those folks' problems.




So frustrated right now... I've had enough with these f@#$ing mirrors... they've caused me grief since I bought the car. Wish I had stock mirrors in this regard... maybe then they'd just friggin' work... :(




EDIT: Forgot to mention, pressing the memory button on the seat makes no difference. The mirrors do not budge at all, even if the passenger mirror tilts down and stays there.

[Avetiso]

I had a similar thing with my ZHP. Upon unlocking, one or both mirrors would something adjust to completely random positions, usually max up or max down.

I could still adjust them back via the switch, though.

Buying a new switch didn't help.

[az3579]

I'd like to add that pressing the memory buttons on my seat makes no difference; the mirrors do not budge (with the fuse in, of course).

[BCS_ZHP]

BP, I have an mirror control switch in the garage, let's try swapping it this weekend to see if you have a switch with a gremlin in it. No charge, it's an extra. Bruce

[az3579]

BP, I have an mirror control switch in the garage, let's try swapping it this weekend to see if you have a switch with a gremlin in it. No charge, it's an extra. Bruce

I'm 99% sure it's not going to make a difference, but I've got nothing to lose... we'll try it! Thanks Bruce. :)

[az3579]

Another tidbit.

I scanned the car tonight and felt I should mention this code I found. Keep in mind: this code existed before this started happening, so it may or may not be related.

"GM: LIN Bus: no response, driver's mirror"

14879

[OtterEffect]

I had a similar thing with my ZHP. Upon unlocking, one or both mirrors would something adjust to completely random positions, usually max up or max down.

I could still adjust them back via the switch, though.

Buying a new switch didn't help.

Ah, good to know I'm not going crazy haha! Every once in a while I look over and think "when the heck did I do that!?" My seat memory works though, so it's all good.

OP, have you tried removing the glass from the mirror housing and then adjusting them via reverse gear or the in car controls? It might help you identify whether or not the motors are sticking. Although I doubt they are, they seem to have a mind of their own. I'm an amateur when it comes to this stuff but the next thing I would do would be to remove the whole mirror housing and examine the electrical. Maybe when the PO retrofitted them, some electronics were left exposed this causing the motor to short circuit and adjust itself?

[az3579]

Ah, good to know I'm not going crazy haha! Every once in a while I look over and think "when the heck did I do that!?" My seat memory works though, so it's all good.

OP, have you tried removing the glass from the mirror housing and then adjusting them via reverse gear or the in car controls? It might help you identify whether or not the motors are sticking. Although I doubt they are, they seem to have a mind of their own. I'm an amateur when it comes to this stuff but the next thing I would do would be to remove the whole mirror housing and examine the electrical. Maybe when the PO retrofitted them, some electronics were left exposed this causing the motor to short circuit and adjust itself?

Charlie and I disassembled the housings maybe a couple of years ago to try to get the mirror motors to sit more central in the housing, and didn't see any actual wiring issues then. If anything, we ("he", in reality :) )made it better...

It's been working fine since so I'm having a hard time imagining this being an issue related to the PO.

I'd very much like to avoid having to take the whole thing apart unless I absolutely have to because it's easy to break the mirror glass mounting clips and I have the Euro M3 aspherical mirrors, so they're insanely expensive (as much for a pair as an actual mirror motor!). Unfortunately I think I might have to do this soon anyway as I've got nothing else to go on, but realistically have no reason to believe anything has changed since the last time I took it apart. If I don't have anything else to go on by the weekend, I'll have to disassemble it one day after work next week.

What else could it be, before I go risk breaking things while taking it apart?

[OtterEffect]

Charlie and I disassembled the housings maybe a couple of years ago to try to get the mirror motors to sit more central in the housing, and didn't see any actual wiring issues then. If anything, we ("he", in reality :) )made it better...

It's been working fine since so I'm having a hard time imagining this being an issue related to the PO.

I'd very much like to avoid having to take the whole thing apart unless I absolutely have to because it's easy to break the mirror glass mounting clips and I have the Euro M3 aspherical mirrors, so they're insanely expensive (as much for a pair as an actual mirror motor!). Unfortunately I think I might have to do this soon anyway as I've got nothing else to go on, but realistically have no reason to believe anything has changed since the last time I took it apart. If I don't have anything else to go on by the weekend, I'll have to disassemble it one day after work next week.

What else could it be, before I go risk breaking things while taking it apart?

Hmm, well again I am no expert, but the next thing I'd look at if i didn't want to rip apart the mirror and had already checked the fuse would be to look at the switch in the door itself. Perhaps it got damaged somehow or broke and is triggering your mirror?

[JupiterBMW]

BP, I apologize man, but I can't offer any concrete advice. I've seen my passenger mirror do funny things before as well, but its only been once or twice, so I haven't looked into it. Honestly though, I would look into the controls, the GM specifically. The motor won't do "random" movements. When a motor goes bad, it'll either take off in one direction and not go back, or it'll short out and not work at all... So, I'd say the GM is your likely culprit...

Good luck.

[JupiterBMW]

Oh forgot to mention, I too have a spare, OEM switch. Its a blue back switch, one for memory seats and mirrors. You should have the same switch, may be worth checking...?

[az3579]

Hmm, well again I am no expert, but the next thing I'd look at if i didn't want to rip apart the mirror and had already checked the fuse would be to look at the switch in the door itself. Perhaps it got damaged somehow or broke and is triggering your mirror?

The fuse is fine, that was the first thing I checked. (Have to add that to OP)
All fuses are actually OK. The only other two fuses I found in relation to external mirrors were 25 and 31, both of which are empty slots with no contacts in their respective slots, leaving only 57.


There is a module in the door for the mirrors? Is there just one that controls both, or does each door have its own? If one module fails (if there are multiple ones), would the other be inoperable?

[az3579]

BP, I apologize man, but I can't offer any concrete advice. I've seen my passenger mirror do funny things before as well, but its only been once or twice, so I haven't looked into it. Honestly though, I would look into the controls, the GM specifically. The motor won't do "random" movements. When a motor goes bad, it'll either take off in one direction and not go back, or it'll short out and not work at all... So, I'd say the GM is your likely culprit...

Good luck.

Is this a common issue with the GM, considering the GM Lin Bus error I posted above?

[JupiterBMW]

I honestly have no idea, but I would assume if the GM was starting to fail, you'd see other things getting goofy as well as the GM controls plenty more... Perhaps the mirror modules in one of the doors... Those should be fairly easy to locate and swap. No idea how to troubleshoot it other than swap it and see if the issue persists.

[OtterEffect]

The fuse is fine, that was the first thing I checked. (Have to add that to OP)
All fuses are actually OK. The only other two fuses I found in relation to external mirrors were 25 and 31, both of which are empty slots with no contacts in their respective slots, leaving only 57.


There is a module in the door for the mirrors? Is there just one that controls both, or does each door have its own? If one module fails (if there are multiple ones), would the other be inoperable?

I would assume that there is only one, and that it is in the driver side door, as that is where the control is.... But that is about the extent of my knowledge lol :dunno

A quick google search made this seem like a fairly common problem. Someone on Bimmerfest had similar symptoms and this was the culprit: (#5)
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=51_3846&hg=51&fg=07&hl=

[az3579]

I honestly have no idea, but I would assume if the GM was starting to fail, you'd see other things getting goofy as well as the GM controls plenty more... Perhaps the mirror modules in one of the doors... Those should be fairly easy to locate and swap. No idea how to troubleshoot it other than swap it and see if the issue persists.


I would assume that there is only one, and that it is in the driver side door, as that is where the control is.... But that is about the extent of my knowledge lol :dunno

A quick google search made this seem like a fairly common problem. Someone on Bimmerfest had similar symptoms and this was the culprit: (#5)
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=EV53&mospid=47725&btnr=51_3846&hg=51&fg=07&hl=

Ugh... #5 is the mirror motor, which is a pretty penny...
I wonder if there's a way to actually diagnose this particular part. I'd hate to pay over $200 and still have the issue, after all. Considering it has a ribbon cable, would a voltmeter work on it?

I just found another thread on here that I forgot I responded to... Derek says he had the same symptoms and ended up replacing his driver's side mirror motor. That resolved his issue.

This is looking like it's headed in a bad direction. :(



Thanks for the confirmation, fellas...

[danewilson77]

Ugh... #5 is the mirror motor, which is a pretty penny...
I wonder if there's a way to actually diagnose this particular part. I'd hate to pay over $200 and still have the issue, after all. Considering it has a ribbon cable, would a voltmeter work on it?

I just found another thread on here that I forgot I responded to... Derek says he had the same symptoms and ended up replacing his driver's side mirror motor. That resolved his issue.

This is looking like it's headed in a bad direction. :(



Thanks for the confirmation, fellas...
http://thebmwminipartstore.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=67138375457&make=BMW&action=oePartSearch&siteid=218365

The friendliest forum on the planet!

[Avetiso]

BP, I did do a bit of research on the issue as well, and most threads blamed the GM5. Honestly, that's probably the first thing I'd check. It seems to be the source of these types of things when it comes to the E46.

[Pip]

I had this exact problem when I cut the ribbon cable on my driver side mirror. For a cheap and quick fix just unplug the ribbon cables from the driver side door under the door card.

[az3579]

Considering that every other function of my GM5 works fine, I'd suspect the driver's mirror motor (and ribbon cables) since quite a few people on this forum have said that this happened to them and it resolved with replacing the mirror motor. I'll start with that for now, since my driver's side mirror never really had full range of motion anyway.

Thanks guys.

[derbo]

BP,

I had a similar experience. It was resolved when I replaced the Mirror Motor/Ribbon cable on the driver side. The Driver side is the master control on the LIN Bus and if it fails, passenger side will also fail. The biggest tell-tale the Passenger side is fine is when you reverse, the tilt function still works perfectly. My passenger side mirror heating also worked fine.


You can remove the driver side motor and ribbon cables and inspect them to see if there is a connection break somewhere. I had a connection break on the ribbon cable itself so I knew instantly I needed a driver side ribbon cable. Good luck BP!

[az3579]

BP,

I had a similar experience. It was resolved when I replaced the Mirror Motor/Ribbon cable on the driver side. The Driver side is the master control on the LIN Bus and if it fails, passenger side will also fail. The biggest tell-tale the Passenger side is fine is when you reverse, the tilt function still works perfectly. My passenger side mirror heating also worked fine.


You can remove the driver side motor and ribbon cables and inspect them to see if there is a connection break somewhere. I had a connection break on the ribbon cable itself so I knew instantly I needed a driver side ribbon cable. Good luck BP!

Just out of curiosity, did your mirror tilt also go back up after taking the car out of reverse? Mine gets stuck down when I put it in reverse... randomly it would revert at some point, but be pointing a lot more inward than where I had it originally.

[derbo]

Just out of curiosity, did your mirror tilt also go back up after taking the car out of reverse? Mine gets stuck down when I put it in reverse... randomly it would revert at some point, but be pointing a lot more inward than where I had it originally.

It was a hit and miss. Sometimes it would go back up, sometimes it wouldn't. I had the same error code on ISTA/D as well. The 00006C code is when the driver side motor does not respond in the LIN-Bus network. You can check continuity on the ribbon cables to confirm that the driver motor has indeed failed.

BTW, which version of ISTA/d are you using? I have 43.10, I saw 44.10 available.

[alexandre]

First, check your mirror fuses. #57 I think and another one, #32 IIRC. I've battled this very issue throughout the winter and finally figured it out in June.

The flex cable is garbage - with weather fluctuations it gets damaged and eventually the flimsy plastic coating over the copper wears off, causing the cable to short or 'f up the signals.

I diagnosed a bad driver motor by unplugging it and seeing that the fuse would no longer blow and the passenger mirror would tilt in reverse. I believe the driver-side motor handles more stuff than the passenger side as it has two cables vs one on the passenger side, which is why when it fails the switch becomes useless.

I ended up buying a used driver-side mirror off a scrap yard (complete assembly) for $60 and swapping in the motor on my shadowline imola ZHP assembly. Much more stuff shows up that way than just looking up the motor part number - they're shared with ZPP 325's, etc. Loads of them on car-part.com.

The new motor fixed my issues, but then I've had a very occasional hiccup where it just won't move in reverse since I've had the car - I just assumed was wear on my GM5's relays - if it comes to be more frequent I'll send it out to scott at bmwgm5.com.

Hope this insight helps, even though you seem to have a different problem if your mirrors still move.

[az3579]

^ It is my understanding that any E46 sedan with memory mirrors will have the ribbon cables. I can't find any assemblies, but at this point I'm not sure I'd want to buy used only to have it happen again, or to have some kind of other problem like you had. I'm just going to replace the mirror motor. Fuses are fine.

I checked out the GM5 repair site and it seems he only fixes GM5 modules for issues with the doors locking or the windows not working. Are you sure this type of issue would be related to the GM5? He doesn't seem to make any mention of mirrors not working, so perhaps he hasn't seen this kind of issue with that module?

[Rovert]

My M3 reverse only moves in but not down....then it resets higher than it was before it moved. LOL. I even have it coded so I can custom set where it points when it goes into reverse. It used to work but I just noticed it not working 100% in the last few weeks.

[anandoc]

Apologies for reviving this very old thread but I seem to have developed the exact same issue today after I got my car back from a detailing job. This obviously included a pressure washer and lots of water so I am wondering whether the driver side mirror motor somehow got shorted.

My symptoms are exactly what BP has stated in the original post. BP, how did you eventually manage to fix this issue? By replacing the driver's side mirror motor?

[az3579]

Apologies for reviving this very old thread but I seem to have developed the exact same issue today after I got my car back from a detailing job. This obviously included a pressure washer and lots of water so I am wondering whether the driver side mirror motor somehow got shorted.

My symptoms are exactly what BP has stated in the original post. BP, how did you eventually manage to fix this issue? By replacing the driver's side mirror motor?
I never fixed it. The solution is to replace the driver's side mirror motor, but I'm just dealing with it until I start making money again.

[anandoc]

Thanks BP. I will try to take apart the driver side motor and try to dry it up properly and see if it helps.

This situation would not have bothered me much if the passenger side mirror did not dip down everytime I put the car in reverse and not come back up. Doesn't seem like there is a way to disable the dip-down if the driver side motor is fubar'ed.

EDIT: Pulled fuse #57 and the passenger mirror does not dip anymore. Sanity restored...for now.

[az3579]

EDIT: Pulled fuse #57 and the passenger mirror does not dip anymore. Sanity restored...for now.

This is exactly what I did. Do note that your mirror heating will NOT work in the winter with the fuse pulled.

[cakM3]

After reading this thread....again.... I'm left wondering when I will start experiencing mirror motor issues relating to my ribbon cables.....

[alexandre]

20209

Pictures of the fun I had last year with those stupid flimsy cables. Not fun having smoke come out of your H/K tweeter.

[anandoc]

Thanks guys for all the information. I knew my passenger side mirror motor was faulty since it would not return to its original position once I put the car back to drive from reverse. I had also pulled a code related to this from the GM5 module:

50/22 - Passenger mirror: Potentiometer axel 2/4

Now that the driver side mirror motor is toast (pulled the code from GM5), I have lost complete control over the mirror switch and hence I had to pull the fuse in order to prevent the passenger side mirror from auto-dipping everytime. I know there must be a way to 'un-code' the auto-dipping and I will eventually get around to doing that.

Question: For us with the ribbon cable mirrors, do we have the mirror modules in the door or are these directly controlled by the GM5 module via the LIN bus? Am I stuck with replacing these with the ribbon cable motors or can I swap with the older and more reliable 12 wire cable mirror motors?

[az3579]

Question: For us with the ribbon cable mirrors, do we have the mirror modules in the door or are these directly controlled by the GM5 module via the LIN bus? Am I stuck with replacing these with the ribbon cable motors or can I swap with the older and more reliable 12 wire cable mirror motors?

If you have ribbon cables, I think you're stuck. The connectors are different and I believe the wiring may be different as well.

Here is a very useful thread about understanding the different types of side mirrors on E46's:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=900070

[tkundhi]

This is exactly what I did. Do note that your mirror heating will NOT work in the winter with the fuse pulled.

Note, you don't need to pull the fuse. Just change the position of the mirror adjustment switch.

[anandoc]

Note, you don't need to pull the fuse. Just change the position of the mirror adjustment switch.

That only works if your driver's side mirror motor is still working. Once that is toast, the switch does not work and putting the switch selector on the driver's side does not prevent the passenger mirror from auto-dipping.

[az3579]

That only works if your driver's side mirror motor is still working. Once that is toast, the switch does not work and putting the switch selector on the driver's side does not prevent the passenger mirror from auto-dipping.
This.

Plus mine is coded for adjustable mirror tilt, so it tilts in both switch positions anyway if it was working.

[tkundhi]

This.

Plus mine is coded for adjustable mirror tilt, so it tilts in both switch positions anyway if it was working.

Sorry I guess I'm confused. What exactly is adjustable mirror tilt? How is it different than the right mirror adjusting then the car is put in reverse? Both our cars do that. But only when the switch is in the proper position. Put it in the other position and the right mirror stays put.

t.

[az3579]

Sorry I guess I'm confused. What exactly is adjustable mirror tilt? How is it different than the right mirror adjusting then the car is put in reverse? Both our cars do that. But only when the switch is in the proper position. Put it in the other position and the right mirror stays put.

t.

Adjustable mirror tilt is a coding feature that allows you to adjust how far the mirror tilts down when the car is put in reverse, versus the factory way of going all the way down. When this coding feature is enabled, the customization is there but unfortunately the mirror tilts down in BOTH switch positions. One switch position follows the OE way of tilting all the way down, while the other switch position only allows it to tilt to the customized setting. There is no way to prevent the mirror from tilting unless you disabled this "custom reverse tilt" setting.