The Right Elbow Factor

[3ZHP]

OK, I’ve had this ZHP for nearly 8 years now and I’m just realizing I don’t fit. It was first brought to my attention by my first driving instructor at Mid-Ohio.


I’ve always liked my steering wheel located in the fully extended and fully down position however; I don’t fit when it’s in that position. Due to the off center steering wheel position in our cars, my right elbows crammed between the console pad and the right bolster. It’s almost like I need to shorten my right arm. That ant gonna happen. Never noticed it much, in Northern Ohio with checker-board grid and strict law enforcement. Now in Tennessee, things are a little different; hands continuously at the 10:00 & 2:00 O’clock positions on the steering wheel and right curves can truly be a PITA.


Time for a change; with the wheel now only being extended 2 inches or less, things seem to fit much better allowing for far greater control and pleasure.


Anyone else noticed this problem?

[Oli77]

Not really, but not tracking the car either plus I am average size. What do you mean wheel extended 2 inches?

[3ZHP]

Not really, but not tracking the car either plus I am average size. What do you mean wheel extended 2 inches?

I'm a little guy also and I'm talking about the telescoping adjustment of the c steering column that brings the wheel closer to your body.

[az3579]

I personally don't have the problem you have, but I do feel that the offset steering is contributing to my hips being shifted, verified by an X-Ray at the chiropractor's office. The offset steering, coupled with the bolsters on the sport seats forcing my left leg way out of the way to reach the dead pedal, I think is making my hips crooked. :(

[Oli77]

I'm a little guy also and I'm talking about the telescoping adjustment of the c steering column that brings the wheel closer to your body.

Well I'll be! Completely forgot about that adjustment! I'll give that a try.

[3ZHP]

I personally don't have the problem you have, but I do feel that the offset steering is contributing to my hips being shifted, verified by an X-Ray at the chiropractor's office. The offset steering, coupled with the bolsters on the sport seats forcing my left leg way out of the way to reach the dead pedal, I think is making my hips crooked. :(

I never really noticed it for 7+ years but, I do now. Must be that I don't drive it everyday anymore.

[SoCalZman]

Do you mean that the wheel is not centered to our seats? I haven't noticed that. I thought that was only an Audi problem. hah.

[OtterEffect]

I'm fairly short and I notice sometimes that I hit my elbows on the bolsters when cornering aggressively. My wheel is only extended about half way and I can get both my wrists on the top of the wheel so my seating position is correct as far as I know. I do definitely feel that the dead pedal is a bit far out though. I find myself sitting a bit sideways sometimes.

Any tips on proper seat positioning?

[Oli77]

Do you mean that the wheel is not centered to our seats? I haven't noticed that. I thought that was only an Audi problem. hah.

I remember the picture from one of our members on this site (I hope) of an e46 convertible shot straight down onto the car. You could tell that the steering wheel is at an angle offset a little from say, the radiator.

[stephenkirsh]

Do you mean that the wheel is not centered to our seats? I haven't noticed that. I thought that was only an Audi problem. hah.

Yea this is news to me too.

[stephenkirsh]

I remember the picture from one of our members on this site (I hope) of an e46 convertible shot straight down onto the car. You could tell that the steering wheel is at an angle offset a little from say, the radiator.

I would have to see the image. If the camera is dead middle in the car, then the steering wheel would indeed LOOK off center due to the perspective.

[bshovers]

Just get alcantara and you won't slide around on those turns! Lol

[danewilson77]

It's offset by measurement as well. Several of us measured ours when Terry (ZHP w/ S54) joined and raised the same question about 2 years ago.

The friendliest forum on the planet!

[derbo]

Do you mean that the wheel is not centered to our seats? I haven't noticed that. I thought that was only an Audi problem. hah.

It's amplified when the Recaro is installed too. It's almost a 2inches off from center for my Recaro..

[danewilson77]

Post #46 and #48.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1420

The friendliest forum on the planet!

[SoCalZman]

wow. well, when I am at my car next weekend I am going to pay close attention. I guess its not a huge deal if I have never noticed it before.

I do know that Audi's wheel are actually not centered to the seat. Its off a few inches

[stephenkirsh]

Post #46 and #48.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1420

The friendliest forum on the planet!

Oh it's ANGLED. Ok. Thx for link; that helped.

I could see this. I'll have to look next time I drive.

[RITmusic2k]

Any tips on proper seat positioning?

I'm gonna do this quick-and-dirty:

Since our pedals are not adjustable, everything starts from our relation to them.

Your first adjustment is to move the whole seat forward or backward such that when planting your ass firmly in the wedge between the seat bottom and seat back, you can depress the clutch pedal (usually the pedal with the deepest travel into the footwell) all the way forward and your leg is just shy of being locked straight. This ensures that you never have to reach, and you can never slide out of a position where you cannot fully operate any foot controls.

The order of the next steps can be shuffled around a bit, but I prefer to set seat height next. This is a relatively subjective adjustment, but most people will need to get their heads in a vertical position that strikes the best compromise between roof clearance and exterior visibility. Short people need higher seating positions than tall people.

The final two adjustments (seatback and steering wheel) are interdependent and might take a little trial-and-error.

We're going to start by adjusting the steering wheel so that it is telescoped all the way forward, as close to the dash as possible. This gives you the clearest view of your instrument cluster (a wheel pulled all the way toward you creates sort of a tunnel-view effect and you may have to move your head side-to-side to view all your gauges).

Once your steering wheel is all the way forward, start at its lowest position and move the wheel up until you can see all your gauges clearly (the top of the steering wheel shouldn't block your view of the top of the speedometer). This may be a temporary set position.

Now, turn your attention to the seatback. You need to tilt the seatback upward toward vertical until you're able to rest your wrists on the top of the steering wheel without rolling your shoulders off the seatback. It's going to feel pretty crowded and very upright if you're used to slouching/laid back driving positions. If you've done it correctly, you can place your hands on 9 o'clock & 3 o'clock and your arms will make a ~90º bend at the elbow. You should be able to turn the steering wheel 180º in either direction without taking your hands off 9 & 3.

At this point, all the main placements are pretty well set, but most people will find this position way too upright to be practical or comfortable. What you can do now is take advantage of the telescopic steering wheel adjustment. Pull the wheel out from the dash, and tilt the seat back so that your shoulders have moved an equivalent distance. The key thing is to keep the relative distance between the wheel and the seat back the same, while placing the seatback in a position that will be comfortable for you to spend a few hours in. Note that the further back the seat tilts, the lower your head will drop in the cabin. You can account for this by raising the seat height just a little.

Congratulations! Your car seat and steering wheel are now adjusted for an appropriate racing position.

This is a pretty aggressive driving position, and you can definitely move things around to make for a more relaxed ride. I believe that all adjustments to that effect should be made starting from this position. It's like tailoring a suit - your body is the size that it is, and you need to get the car to fit around you. We start by making the car 'skin tight' (racing position), then tighten up a little here, loosen up a little there, until everything is comfortable and functional.

P.S. Since you've gone through all this effort to get your seating position right, now's the time to adjust your mirrors! But that's another post.

[OtterEffect]

Thanks for writing all that out! Looks like I've been setting my seating position just about correctly. One question though, since my car has a clutch stop, would it be better to set my foward/backward position in relation to where my foot would be without the clutch stop? Or with it?

[Oli77]

Nobody remembers the pic I am talking about?

[RITmusic2k]

would it be better to set my foward/backward position in relation to where my foot would be without the clutch stop? Or with it?

I'd adjust it for how far your pedal actually travels, not how far it would travel if you had a different configuration. Those of us with clutch stops (myself included) will have our seats just slightly back further than we would without the clutch stop installed. That being said, the difference is typically just an inch or two, and if you've already set up your seat and then go in to install a clutch stop later, it probably isn't significant enough of a change to necessitate a reposition.

[stephenkirsh]

For seat height, don't forget to leave room for helmet clearance!

[OtterEffect]

Thanks guys for the info! Ah I want to go to the track now.

[johnrando]

Good info on the seat adjustment

[Fenrir]

So it's only after reading this thread did I realize the steering wheel could be manually extended and retracted... I went outside today and played with driving positions for almost 30 min and found a comfortable position finally. Whoooooooole new driving experience now. I love this forum lol.

[johnrando]

:roundel