150 amp alternator upgrade

[ryankokesh]

My voltage had dropped to the low 12s at idle. Read that a 150 amp (vs the 120 in the zhp) from an '05 325i fits perfectly if you have the oval connector. They're around $120 at autozone too, so significantly less.

Popped it in this afternoon and it's doing just dandy! Back up to just under 14v.

http://i.imgur.com/OI6y7SI.png

http://i.imgur.com/14StbTL.png

Part number 1108
http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/alternator/duralast-import-alternator/bmw/325i/2005/6-cylinders-2-5l-efi-dohc/870068_100967_3001/

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[johnrando]

Alternator that easy to switch out?

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[derbo]

Alternator that easy to switch out?

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It's pretty darn easy on a manual. The Auto requires the fan to be removed. :)

[johnrando]

I don't have 2 fans anymore. Fan delete FTW

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[ryankokesh]

Alternator that easy to switch out?

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Hardest part is wiggling the old one out. I've done it a few times, but taking my time it took a solid half hour.


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[johnrando]

Thx

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[cakM3]

It's pretty darn easy on a manual. The Auto requires the fan to be removed. :)

+1



Alternator that easy to switch out?

=============================

I don't have 2 fans anymore. Fan delete FTW

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Then with your car, yes.... it's easy :)


I'm wondering what the long-term effects of going from 120amp to 150amp will be on the electrical system?

[ryankokesh]

+1



Then with your car, yes.... it's easy :)


I'm wondering what the long-term effects of going from 120amp to 150amp will be on the electrical system?

I was kind of wondering that too... From what I've read, nothing. Anyone know more about electricity than me? My humorously limited knowledge tells me that amps are more like gallons of fuel in the tank, whereas volts are likened to the octane?

Plus, I figure if it was stock for the 05' 325, it probably is just fine. :dunno


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[cakM3]

I was kind of wondering that too... From what I've read, nothing. Anyone know more about electricity than me? My humorously limited knowledge tells me that amps are more like gallons of fuel in the tank, whereas volts are likened to the octane?

Plus, I figure if it was stock for the 05' 325, it probably is just fine. :dunno


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My guess is that you should be okay especially if you have a lot of electrical loads in the car but then I'm no BMW electrical wizard.....

[ryankokesh]

My guess is that you should be okay especially if you have a lot of electrical loads in the car. Custom car stereo and such....

That's actually one reason I wanted to do it. That thing is swimming in electronics, plus an additional small sub...


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[derbo]

I was kind of wondering that too... From what I've read, nothing. Anyone know more about electricity than me? My humorously limited knowledge tells me that amps are more like gallons of fuel in the tank, whereas volts are likened to the octane?

Plus, I figure if it was stock for the 05' 325, it probably is just fine. :dunno


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Hmm..I'm not sure if I get that analogy.

but a quick rundown:

Amps x Volts = Wattage.

Car systems are set to a static 12V so amperage is the only thing that changes can be amperage to meet the wattage requirements.


Best analogy is plumbing pipes

Voltage = Water Pressure
Amperage = Water Flow Rate

Water flow will only use as much as is required. ie. Turn signal wants 1A, the amperage will only pull 1A.


Only thing is to ensure the water pipe (Resistance) is rated for the max water flow (amperage). Since we are going from 120A to 150A, I doubt the power wires and ground straps (water pipe size) will have any issues with the minor increase.

[ryankokesh]

Hmm..I'm not sure if I get that analogy.

but a quick rundown:

Amps x Volts = Wattage.

Car systems are set to a static 12V so amperage is the only thing that changes can be amperage to meet the wattage requirements.


Best analogy is plumbing pipes

Voltage = Water Pressure
Amperage = Water Flow Rate

Water flow will only use as much as is required. ie. Turn signal wants 1A, the amperage will only pull 1A.


Only thing is the ensure the water pipe (Resistance) is rated for the max water flow (amperage). Since we are going from 120A to 150A, I doubt the power wires and ground straps (water pipe size) will have any issues with the minor increase.

Lol, that is a substantially better explanation :)


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[derbo]

Lol, that is a substantially better explanation :)


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Also Ryan,

It is possible your voltage regulator was wearing out on your 120A. How many watts is your sub system?

[ryankokesh]

Also Ryan,

It is possible your voltage regulator was wearing out on your 120A. How many watts is your sub system?

Actually the VR was about a year old... So if anyone needs one of those things...

It's a pretty small sub, 200w might be generous? Just one of those little infinity things.


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[derbo]

Actually the VR was about a year old... So if anyone needs one of those things...

It's a pretty small sub, 200w might be generous? Just one of those little infinity things.


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the 120A has about 1440W of power available for the entire car.
the 150A has about 1800W of power available.

I wonder what the stock car requires in terms of Amperage.

[ryankokesh]

the 120A has about 1440W of power available for the entire car.
the 150A has about 1800W of power available.

I wonder what the stock car requires in terms of Amperage.

That's a good question...


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[derbo]

That's a good question...


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Considering there is a 90W alternator, it might be far below the 120A max.

[ryankokesh]

Considering there is a 90W alternator, it might be far below the 120A max.

Whoa


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[derbo]

err correction, 90A.

[ryankokesh]

err correction, 90A.

Ah, lol.


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[stephenkirsh]

I was kind of wondering that too... From what I've read, nothing. Anyone know more about electricity than me? My humorously limited knowledge tells me that amps are more like gallons of fuel in the tank, whereas volts are likened to the octane?

Plus, I figure if it was stock for the 05' 325, it probably is just fine. :dunno


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A 325 huh? I can't imagine why that would be different. I wonder if that's for the SULEV 325.

[ryankokesh]

A 325 huh? I can't imagine why that would be different. I wonder if that's for the SULEV 325.

Yeah, I'm not sure. Seems like a fairly logical explanation though. Well, not exactly logical, but at least an explanation. :dunno

I'm a couple hundred miles in and so far so good.


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[stephenkirsh]

I had a SULEV and had some electrical issues at one point. Mechanics said the SULEV alternator was beefier than the regular cars to run the extra emissions stuff. That's my best guess.

[Hornung418]

I need to upgrade the alternator in my car...the stock one is not only heavy (12lbs) but my volt meter sits just under 12V. so everytime I turn up the radio or use my blinkers, the gauge needles bounce up and down. Quite comical.

There is an alternative option from the Nissan Quest that fits right in there and lowers the weight significantly.

"You don't have to blow out my candle just to make yours shine brighter."

[alexandre]

I need to upgrade the alternator in my car...the stock one is not only heavy (12lbs) but my volt meter sits just under 12V. so everytime I turn up the radio or use my blinkers, the gauge needles bounce up and down. Quite comical.

There is an alternative option from the Nissan Quest that fits right in there and lowers the weight significantly.

"You don't have to blow out my candle just to make yours shine brighter."

You'd still be fixing your Porsche with Nissan Quest parts... :shifty

http://static2.esciudad.com/1995/nissan_quest_rojo_9011832_2.jpg

[slater]

Hardest part is wiggling the old one out. I've done it a few times, but taking my time it took a solid half hour.


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when i removed mine for the first time recently to do the OFHG, i was gearing up for the 'pain' of alternator removal/install. it was super easy - i wiggled for 1min, used a flat pry-bar for some impact leverage, and it came out in under 30 seconds. install was just as easy, no issues with lining up bolts...

great deal on that alternator though - $120 for a new one is fantastic!



the 120A has about 1440W of power available for the entire car.
the 150A has about 1800W of power available.

I wonder what the stock car requires in terms of Amperage.


I had a SULEV and had some electrical issues at one point. Mechanics said the SULEV alternator was beefier than the regular cars to run the extra emissions stuff. That's my best guess.

this sounds entirely possible. i would assume there should be no ill-effects since you're not increasing the voltage.

i wonder what the price difference is between 120A and 150A units?

peter

[cakM3]

... that a 150 amp (vs the 120 in the zhp) from an '05 325i fits perfectly if you have the oval connector. They're around $120 at autozone too, so significantly less.

Part number 1108
http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/alternator/duralast-import-alternator/bmw/325i/2005/6-cylinders-2-5l-efi-dohc/870068_100967_3001/

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I think I will get one of these and pop it into my ZHP....who knows? It might solve my alternator whine for good :)

[cakM3]

I'm curious to know how many ZHP owners out there have the D-shaped connector on their alternators? Then when you look at your connectors, do all of you have only one wire attached to the D-shaped connector?

I recently looked at mine and noticed that there was only one wire attached to my D-shaped connector. Chad then checked his ZHP and noted the same configuration, so I was left wondering....

[derbo]

this sounds entirely possible. i would assume there should be no ill-effects since you're not increasing the voltage.



peter

Yes but be careful. The alternator has a higher capacity for amperage. With only a 30A difference in change, I don't believe there is any issue with this. If the alternator was changed to a 300A, there would definitely concern if the power and ground straps were capable of delivering that much power. In this scenario, I don't believe a 150A will have any danger in relation to wiring.

[ryankokesh]

Yes but be careful. The alternator has a higher capacity for amperage. With only a 30A difference in change, I don't believe there is any issue with this. If the alternator was changed to a 300A, there would definitely concern if the power and ground straps were capable of delivering that much power. In this scenario, I don't believe a 150A will have any danger in relation to wiring.

I don't think they changed the wiring harnesses for the '05 325... Been meaning to look that up though.


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[derbo]

I don't think they changed the wiring harnesses for the '05 325... Been meaning to look that up though.


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Highly doubt it. Car parts are usually over-engineered and that also includes wiring.

[stephenkirsh]

Just a repeat, it could be because of SULEV changes. So much in the M56 is different.

[wsmeyer]

Most newer BMW's unload the alternator during acceleration and then put extra load on it during breaking so I'm not surprised they have a higher current output.

[terraphantm]

Just a repeat, it could be because of SULEV changes. So much in the M56 is different.

Apparently the SULEV alternator was also used on the 330 convertible. It should be fine

[derbo]

Most newer BMW's unload the alternator during acceleration and then put extra load on it during breaking so I'm not surprised they have a higher current output.

Does the Alternator have a clutch to do this? I heard of the A/C disabling during WOT for the E92 M3 but I haven't heard of the alternator unloading during acceleration. I'm not saying you are wrong, just more curious than anything. :)


edit: TIL that BMW under loads the alternator to free up some HP. I wonder how it is done.

[terraphantm]

Does the Alternator have a clutch to do this? I heard of the A/C disabling during WOT for the E92 M3 but I haven't heard of the alternator unloading during acceleration. I'm not saying you are wrong, just more curious than anything. :)


edit: TIL that BMW under loads the alternator to free up some HP. I wonder how it is done.

I don't think that was ever done on E46s.

[wsmeyer]

Yeah they never did it on the E46 but I thought you were trying to put a higher output alternator in from another car

[terraphantm]

Yeah they never did it on the E46 but I thought you were trying to put a higher output alternator in from another car

The 155A unit is still from an E46 (325i SULEV and apparently some 330ci convertibles)

[wsmeyer]

Gotcha. Never looked to see what came on my vert. The verts hydraulic pump does create a pretty high load, especially with the car off.

[johnrando]

The 155A unit is still from an E46 (325i SULEV and apparently some 330ci convertibles)

What should we look for to check? Also, LMK what you have William.

[terraphantm]

What should we look for to check? Also, LMK what you have William.

Not sure. Just saw realoem lists 3 parts, one 90A, one 120A, and one 155A. Might depend on the option combo.

[ryankokesh]

So I'm doing a little RealOEM sleuthing...

Looks like any M56 engined car came with the 155A part number 12317541696 (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AZ33&mospid=47721&btnr=12_1082&hg=12&fg=20)

'04 330 verts came with anything from a 90A to the same 155A (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BW53&mospid=47707&btnr=12_1082&hg=12&fg=20)

The only thing I can find that came with the 150A flavor that Autozone has (http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/alternator/duralast-import-alternator/bmw/325i/2005/6-cylinders-2-5l-efi-dohc/870068_100967_3001/) is the 330d and xd (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=ED71&mospid=47646&btnr=12_0614&hg=12&fg=20) (320 too...)


Would it have really been that difficult to use one part? :facepalm

[stephenkirsh]

Apparently not lol. I remember when I was having my electrical issues on the M56, mechanics were like "there's at least 5 different alternators used; I'd have to look at it in person."

[cakM3]

So I'm doing a little RealOEM sleuthing...

Looks like any M56 engined car came with the 155A part number 12317541696 (/showparts.do?model=AZ33&mospid=47721&btnr=12_1082&hg=12&fg=20)

'04 330 verts came with anything from a 90A to the same 155A (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BW53&mospid=47707&btnr=12_1082&hg=12&fg=20)

The only thing I can find that came with the 150A flavor that Autozone has (http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/alternator/duralast-import-alternator/bmw/325i/2005/6-cylinders-2-5l-efi-dohc/870068_100967_3001/) is the 330d and xd (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=ED71&mospid=47646&btnr=12_0614&hg=12&fg=20) (320 too...)


Would it have really been that difficult to use one part? :facepalm


Apparently not lol. I remember when I was having my electrical issues on the M56, mechanics were like "there's at least 5 different alternators used; I'd have to look at it in person."

Yeah, I went thru that trying to research the right part for my alternator replacement on my ZHP. Right now I'm just looking for one that will do the job w/o having to hear that alternator whine. Glad you took the time to post your findings Ryan :thumbsup

[ryankokesh]

Yeah, I went thru that trying to research the right part for my alternator replacement on my ZHP. Right now I'm just looking for one that will do the job w/o having to hear that alternator whine. Glad you took the time to post your findings Ryan :thumbsup

No problem! Sounds to me like as long as the plug fits, you're fine. You could even modify the plug if you want. Really seems like there's little rhyme or reason.

[wsmeyer]

Some Bentley manual sleuthing might shed some light on how to differentiate.

[ryankokesh]

Some Bentley manual sleuthing might shed some light on how to differentiate.

I looked a little last night... didn't find anything, but I didn't really dig into the electrical diagrams, etc.

[wsmeyer]

I looked a little last night... didn't find anything, but I didn't really dig into the electrical diagrams, etc.

:idea

The wiring diagrams in WDS will show the connectors.

[cakM3]

:idea

The wiring diagrams in WDS will show the connectors.

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/en/index.htm (http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/en/index.htm)

[ryankokesh]

Bosch seems to be fine with the 150A in the ZHP:

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/924a/3775lg2z13n0hxg5g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?3775lg2z13n0hxg)

[STREETFIGHTER50]

This is awesome info here! My dad's 2005 325it voltage regulator recently went bad. I just received a Bosch VR from AutohausAZ yesterday & it came with a rectangular plug. Dad's car has an oval plug... Well it looks like I'm gonna return the VR & get the 150amp alternator from the local O'reilly's for $119.99. I called & they said it does have the oval plug. I'll try my luck!

[STREETFIGHTER50]

Well I've gone to 3 different stores today & all of their new alternators didn't test good on their machines. First 2 stores said their connector plug's were bad & the last store said that their machine just can't read this particular alternator for some reason. When they type in the part # on the test machine it adds a "B" to the end of it & doesn't read any voltage. All said I can just install it & if it doesn't work I can get my money back lol