Engine cranks but will not start (Already replaced fuel pump & crank sensor)

[nozhp4u]

I'm having a frustrating no start/intermittent no start/cold start situation. I have searched the forums, and cannot pinpoint the problem.
I have an 05 ZHP sedan. 115,000 miles. Engine cranks but intermittently does not start. As temps get near or below freezing the car seems less likely to start (not sure if this is a coincidence or not).

Just put in new fuel pump, fuel filter and fuel pump relay after having to tow the car to my indy mechanic after being stranded.

It started up for a day or 2, and then would not start. Had to tow it back to my indy. They just installed a new crank sensor. It started while inside the heated shop, but after parking the car outside in the cold it took 3 attempts to start.

Fuel pressure appears fine.

No Check Engine light and no codes are being thrown.

When it starts, it runs and drives normal.

We will check compression next. I am able to repeatedly attempt to start the car. It cranks and cranks, but more often than not just will not start.

Any Ideas? I'm kind of at a loss as to what the culprit could be at this point.

[Scott ZHP]

I'd rule out compression; if it runs fine.

It's a long shot, but have you tried adding some HEET/dry gas to the tank to see if that's part of the problem? Failing that, sounds like you have an intermittent electrical problem.

[terraphantm]

Maybe the injector relay is bad?

[nozhp4u]

Good suggestion - We did put some HEET in the gas tank earlier on in the diagnosis process. Unfortunately it didn't cure the intermittent no starts. I will look into the injector relay also - tks. Due to the increased propensity for a no start when temps are at or below freezing, I wonder if there could be a metal contact or connection expanding/contracting to the point where a necessary circuit fails ???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[daveuls10]

this sounds like exactly what my car is doing, however I do have 2 rich codes being thrown. Keep us updated if you get the problem narrowed down

[ryankokesh]

Does it ever not crank?

It sounds like you have pretty much confirmed you have fuel. And it's cranking, and I think we can safely assume you have air. So all that's left really would be spark...? Have you checked the plugs and ignition coils? Not sure how much sense that makes if it's sometimes running...

I would usually assume electrical problems, but if it's cranking I'm not so sure.

[nozhp4u]

I stopped by the shop where the car is. The plugs were checked (pretty darn black on the ends). We replaced with new. When the car is inside in their heated garage it seems to start up fine. When it goes outside to sub freezing temps, it usually just cranks but does not start.

I asked them about the battery being a possibility. Hadn't really considered this as a possible culprit as the car cranks repeatedly with no issue even at 5-10 degrees and it is only 2 years old. Bosch battery tester showed voltage and CCA readings below spec.

Could a bad battery potentially cause this crank but no start scenario?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[johnrando]

Yes, bad battery can cause all kinds of havoc on these cars.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[daveuls10]

I stopped by the shop where the car is. The plugs were checked (pretty darn black on the ends). We replaced with new. When the car is inside in their heated garage it seems to start up fine. When it goes outside to sub freezing temps, it usually just cranks but does not start.

I asked them about the battery being a possibility. Hadn't really considered this as a possible culprit as the car cranks repeatedly with no issue even at 5-10 degrees and it is only 2 years old. Bosch battery tester showed voltage and CCA readings below spec.

Could a bad battery potentially cause this crank but no start scenario?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes replace the battery and plugs. I just did that to mine and seems to start easier and was having same problem. Granted, my car has not been directly outside but has been in an unheated garage for the past few days.

[nozhp4u]

I bet it's the CCV that blackened my plugs. I should probably refresh the CCV system as I live in a cold climate area. Noticed the telltale "yellow snot," or "mayo" on the oil cap on occasion in the winter if the car hasn't had the opportunity to get temps fully up for extended periods. Even so, I don't think that could be a root cause for a no-start condition. Sounds like you guys agree a weak battery could potentially cause cold temp no-starts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[daveuls10]

OP did you ever solve your problem?

[nozhp4u]

No, the issue has not been resolved yet. Replaced the plugs and battery. The car seemed to start up alright while testing it for about a week, albeit warmer temps mostly (started on some 25-32 degree days even). Drove it to work and back yesterday, even. Then today the car would not start in the morning or evening(14 degrees). What's left to look into at this point?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[daveuls10]

No, the issue has not been resolved yet. Replaced the plugs and battery. The car seemed to start up alright while testing it for about a week, albeit warmer temps mostly (started on some 25-32 degree days even). Drove it to work and back yesterday, even. Then today the car would not start in the morning or evening(14 degrees). What's left to look into at this point?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not sure. What about your injector relay? Or the fuses? I'm not sure what else could be wrong. Mine was doing almost the identical same thing and I replaced the fuel filter and fuse but a no go. Yesterday I changed the fuel pump relay, which I noticed you've already done, and mine started up right away this morning. I'm still being cautiously optimistic since you said yours was starting for a few days after everything was done.

When your car does start and you shut it off, will it start up again right away or will the problem ensue?

[nozhp4u]

DaveUls10 - Sorry you're going through the same thing. Can be frustrating to diagnose the root cause on these issues! The issue has definitely been an intermittent one. I have driven the car to work in the morning, driven to lunch and had the car not start 30 minutes later after eating. After replacing the battery and plugs, we test started the car on 3 to 4 separate days without issue. I wonder if the cold temps are causing metal contraction at some harness or contact point enough that a needed signal is not being sent to the main computer?....Or some type of parasitic draw on the battery that dips the voltage low enough to create a no start scenario? Hmm...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[fredo]

I have a similar issue with my 2005 ZHP sedan with 140,000 miles, details follow:

1) Car won't start sometimes. I verified the battery is good (but 5 years old). You can hear the engine cranking. After 10+ attempts, the car starts and drives fine. This happens on average once per month. But I don't drive the ZHP daily because I have another car.

2) According to PO, this started 2+ years ago. My Indy asked to bring the car when it fails. But since I know the car will eventually start I didn't have it towed yet.

3) There's info on e46f about this, looks like the ignition switch and the fuel pump could be failing. I plan to replace both parts next week and I will report back.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1011677

[nozhp4u]

Fredo- so it sounds like you too have an intermittent no start situation. It could be the fuel pump, crank sensor or ignition switch....or it could be something else altogether. You may want to run some tests. Maybe start by checking the fuel pressure at the rail. I can attest that throwing parts at the problem in an effort to guess the problem can wind up being a very expensive proposition.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nozhp4u]

My car started a few days later on the first attempt in 13 degree temps. Go figure. Peculiar this issue is.

Anyone know if a bad ignition switch can cause intermittent no starts (with no dash lights or other unusual electrical issues)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Karl Lazlo]

fredo - For a frame of reference, 140k is when my FP went south on my 03.

[alexandre]

Check engine ground strap. I was having exactly the same kind of bizarre starting issues and it turned out mine was loose.

Metal contracts in the cold, which tightens the ground on its stud - which allows car to start. Other times the vibration generated by cranking can move the ground - allowing a small contact and therefore starting the car.

Fixing it was 20 minutes labor at my indy!

[ELCID86]

Check engine ground strap. I was having exactly the same kind of bizarre starting issues and it turned out mine was loose.

Metal contracts in the cold, which tightens the ground on its stud - which allows car to start. Other times the vibration generated by cranking can move the ground - allowing a small contact and therefore starting the car.

Fixing it was 20 minutes labor at my indy!

So you found/fixed it?! Awesome.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[alexandre]

So you found/fixed it?! Awesome.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

Yep. Burned 8h replacing the starter for nothing but oh well - peace of mind is worth it!

[ELCID86]

Yep. Burned 8h replacing the starter for nothing but oh well - peace of mind is worth it!

Very true. I think mines on the way out. Glad my hunch paid off ;-)


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[nozhp4u]

Solved. Most likely this is what happened. Bad fuel pump. Fuel pump relay was swapped prior to replacing bad fuel pump. Bad fuel pump fried new fuel pump relay (or it was a defective relay). Therefore after putting in new fuel pump and not replacing fuel pump relay again, the intermittent no start condition continued. After doing some troubleshooting and replacing the relay, I haven't had a single no start, knock on wood. Not a fun experience diagnosing.

Photo of fried fuel pump http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160529/e2f0e505cde3fa012a59b26c77ba23f5.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160529/e6e87c14290f2a542f5516084946c20b.jpgrelay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BMWCurves]

Glad you were able to source the issue. Hopefully that was it.

[ELCID86]

Glad you were able to source the issue. Hopefully that was it.

+1 and good troubleshooting!

[nozhp4u]

Thanks guys. Hopefully this thread may be of assistance to someone else in the future.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk