Talk me off the ledge

[Lorenzo]

I was curious and saw and drove this 2004 M3 coupe w/108k miles today - lives in Asburn, 15 min away from me. And wow. Quite a leap in power over my ZHP. I haven't driven an e46 m3 before. Owner is going overseas for his job for one year and looking for new home for his car. First owner had it new to 98k miles and took care of it well - all receipts available. 2nd owner only had it for last 10k miles. And he has done several good upgrades - e.g. Koni shocks.

I just purchased my 2005 ZHP in December (w/115k mi). And I love it. But this m3 seems in excellent mechanical and interior/exterior condition. If I sold my ZHP, I think the added cost for m3 would be about $6K-$7k difference. Seems like a lot more car for $6K/$7K.

Should I make the leap or be happy with what I have?

Here's a few pics I snapped and the ad

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/cto/5403113110.html

[BMWCurves]

I'll tell you to take the leap! I joke.

I love the color combo, miles aren't bad, and it's a manual. To quote Jeremy Clarkson, "straight six in the front, manual gearbox in the middle, and drive going to the rear. Page one, chapter one of the Petrosexual handbook"

Expect maintenance costs to increase from about $1k/year average to what I'm told is about $2-3k/year. Fuel costs will increase a bit, but let's be real: you aren't getting into an M3 for its fuel efficiency. I'd wager insurance premiums will a bit higher too.

I'm not particularly familiar with M3 prices, but $17k for an updated M3 (LED taillights) with normal mileage seems low to me. If the CarFax and PPI is clean then it's definitely something to consider. M3 owners here can chime in with better experience and knowledge.

[Pip]

I would stay happy with what you have. I made the leap and have enjoyed it but getting the exhaust sound I wanted was difficult with the m3, daily driving the ZHP was much better, and maintenance is more expensive

[Lorenzo]

My ZHP is a pure weekend/project car. I have a sedan as daily. So the maintenance on m3 while more, will hopefully take longer to accumulate - as I drove weekender 3K-4K miles per year

[Pip]

My ZHP is a pure weekend/project car. I have a sedan as daily. So the maintenance on m3 while more, will hopefully take longer to accumulate - as I drove weekender 3K-4K miles per year

As a weekend car the m3 is great and fun for me. I also have a daily sedan. Ideally I would've kept the ZHP as my only car but happened into a situation where the daily was free other than insurance/maintenance.

[cakM3]

I daily drove my M3 for a year before picking up my ZHP. I can say that driving the M3 is a lot of fun but I always feel like I can easily get into a lot of trouble due to the added performance this car has over the ZHP... for daily driving purposes I choose my ZHP as I feel this is the best daily driving machine I have ever had. As Sean posted above me, the M3 is a great and fun "weekend car".... I feel the same way :)

I'm glad I have both in my garage :thumbsup

[Vas]

That is a good price for the year and miles plus 2 owners.

Question though is did you fall in love with it?

[BMWCurves]

Did you feel this after driving?

http://i.imgur.com/lhjhbB9.gif

[Lorenzo]

I daily drove my M3 for a year before picking up my ZHP. I can say that driving the M3 is a lot of fun but I always feel like I can easily get into a lot of trouble due to the added performance this car has over the ZHP... for daily driving purposes I choose my ZHP as I feel this is the best daily driving machine I have ever had. As Sean posted above me, the M3 is a great and fun "weekend car".... I feel the same way :)

I'm glad I have both in my garage :thumbsup

Both! - Now's that's the answer! But it would cost me my marriage I think. As I thought about it and read a little on the forums, I realize m3 and ZHPs are very different cars. When I drove the m3 today, it was exhilarating...almost begging to be pushed to its limits. So I agree that I would find myself speeding often - which will lead to trouble.

[Lorenzo]

Did you feel this after driving?

http://i.imgur.com/lhjhbB9.gif

YES!

[Lorenzo]

That is a good price for the year and miles plus 2 owners.

Question though is did you fall in love with it?

I was very much drawn to the m3. Nothing like I've ever driven before. And this particular M3 was in very good shape - interior and leather seats was very clean and not worn. I think if I could turn back the clock a month ago I would've purchased the M3. It's a whole other level of a car.

[Lorenzo]

Maybe I should sell my daily (2012 328 sedan) and keep the ZHP as daily (I already have winter wheels) and buy the M3 for weekends. But this option will also end my marriage!

[fredo]

IMHO, it's better to have a newer car as daily. Keep the 328 and enjoy the ZHP on weekends.

[fredo]

What else can I say, I have never driven an M3 ! :crying

[Lorenzo]

IMHO, it's better to have a newer car as daily. Keep the 328 and enjoy the ZHP on weekends.

Agreed. All the technology in my F30 comes in handy. And it's only got 30k miles. It's a terrific daily.

You see my wife went to Florida for a week, so I am home alone and I'm getting myself in trouble by dreaming of faster cars. Well at least I got to kick my wife's car out of the garage and made my garage as it should be. And seeing the two cars next to each other, makes me realize I gotta get the tint on the ZHP.

[terraphantm]

If you have a 328, sell the ZHP and buy the M3. Use the 328 as a daily and M3 as the weekend car.

Main reason to have a ZHP over an M3 IMO is the daily driveability, and that shouldn't matter if you have an F30.

[cakM3]

...keep the ZHP as daily (I already have winter wheels) and buy the M3 for weekends.

That's how I do it, but terra has a very good point ;) :thumbsup

[Lorenzo]

If you have a 328, sell the ZHP and buy the M3. Use the 328 as a daily and M3 as the weekend car.

Main reason to have a ZHP over an M3 IMO is the daily driveability, and that shouldn't matter if you have an F30.

Makes perfect sense. As I said, I likely would have chosen m3 over ZHP a month ago (when I bought the ZHP). But I feel logically the right thing to do is to keep ZHP for a couple years and then maybe move on to M3. Emotionally I'm drawn to the M3.

[Karl Lazlo]

Makes perfect sense.

Don't listen to those people. It is completely reasonable and prudent to own three BMWs.

[Vas]

Problem is finding a good example of an m3 in a few years might be a bigger problem. Even now its hard to find a good example that doesn't cost a huge amount.

For me personally this is not my favorite color.

[BMWCurves]

I say take the plunge. That way I can live vicariously through your purchase.

[az3579]

IMHO, it's better to have a newer car as daily. Keep the 328 and enjoy the ZHP on weekends.
This.

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[BCS_ZHP]

Larry,
Ask Jon for his opinion on an M3. On the wife, you've been married over 20 years, how long does she stay pissed when you do something without her approval? Can you deal with her silent treatment & no dinners for awhile? Sure, then go for it.

Food for thought. I bought a high mileage M3 in Aug 2014 intending to fix and sell it, needed a center support bearing and guibo replacement, did that in the 2-3 days it took to get the parts. My oldest son drove it, loved it, begged to swap cars with me. His old GF drove it, she came back smiling, said it made her feel "tingly", then got all red faced. My 2nd son drove it, said holy crap, sell it now or we're all gonna get a bunch of speeding tickets. My wife drove it, said don't you dare let the boys drive it (oops, too late). I let a BMW friend drive it, he loved it, sold it to him, problem solved. Consider what would happen to your son if he got ahold of that car.

[Lorenzo]

...Consider what would happen to your son if he got ahold of that car.

Yeh he'd either get tickets, lose his license, wreck it, get thrown in jail, or all the above! Yikes!

I am meeting Jon Sunday and will get his input.

[BCS_ZHP]

Buy the M3 and sell the ZHP to your son, you be the bank and let him make payments from his summer job when home from college. Then if the M3 itch dies out, sell it and you've still got a nice ZHP. Wife probably won't be happy, let her drive the ZHP when your son is away at school, she'll love it.

[WOLFN8TR]

I went from a 2005 ZHP to a 2005 SMG M3 and absolutely love it! I don't find the maintenance to be all that much more so far. The insurance was about $10 more per month. I'm 46 and married so that helps. :)

That M3 is actually priced pretty low from what I've seen 6MT's going for. If you are seriously thinking of getting it take it for a PPI. Make sure they focus on the Vanos and sub frame. Take a look at my build thread when you get a chance. Good luck to ya...

[bosszhp]

I just purchased my 2005 ZHP in December (w/115k mi). And I love it. But this m3 seems in excellent mechanical and interior/exterior condition. If I sold my ZHP, I think the added cost for m3 would be about $6K-$7k difference. Seems like a lot more car for $6K/$7K.

Should I make the leap or be happy with what I have?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/cto/5403113110.html

I often find myself looking at M's for sale and pondering the same question. Ideally I would have liked to get the M3 instead of my ZHP since it has always been one of my dream cars. Only thing is there is a time and place for everything, and right now financially I can't make an ///M work. Realistically, if you have the financial means and it gives you "the fizz" (how could an E46 M3 not?) as James May likes to say then by all means do it. Me on the other hand I'm still waiting for that opportunity and trying to just enjoy my ZHP for what it's worth because I'm sure there's someone wishing they had one right now! I just hope by the time I'm ready to make the jump there are still some clean 6MT coupe's left at a decent price. Can someone here buy one and sell it to me when I'm ready so I know it's been taken care of? ;)

[NoVAphotog]

I think all of us have peered over this ledge at some point in our zhp ownership, it's not our fault BMW failed to make what most of us would have if it existed (4 doors + s54).

That's not a bad price for that M3, I've been looking at them a little as well. Need to drive some more to really get a feel for it. I'm all about the color if I was to move from my zhp. I wouldn't want a color I don't like, "just to have an m3", sorry but that doesn't work for me.

I have the target car of BMW's consolation package: 4 doors, great handling and the "m" color, Imola Red. It would need to be a clean, Imola Red, Mystic blue, or interlagos blue m3 to get me to even consider switching and even then I'd want to play with the idea of having both like Charlie.

To play Devils advocate which in this case I guess could be both sides [emoji14]

This is northern VA, another reason I'm not in a rush to switch is an m3 is just not as special here compared to a zhp sedan...its "just another black m3" waiting to get you in trouble and a reckless driving ticket for "making noise and having the tires squeal a bit"

Yes. The car is a different animal, but the whole reason this forum exists is because of what the zhp package did to the 330 to make it the balance between all the variables we've mentioned.

I still say go for it because at the end of the day, if I was considering a COUPE I would have gotten an m3. All of what i said applied to the sedan as that is why they came up with the package in the first place and why I bought my car.

Sell zhp, buy m3, daily 328, be happy. And let me drive it! :D

Or sell both, buy an Imola Red sedan and supercharge it! :D

[cakM3]

I think all of us have peered over this ledge at some point...

I can't speak for others but I can easily say I have gone over that ledge in a free-fall and enjoying every moment of my BMW modding.... ;)

[bshovers]

I want to take the plunge into the E46 M3, but man I love my 4 doors. I think after my zhps paid off a s54 swap would be the most practical for me. Thats just my particular situation though. Id say go for it.

[brettbimmer]

Agreed. All the technology in my F30 comes in handy. And it's only got 30k miles. It's a terrific daily.

You see my wife went to Florida for a week, so I am home alone and I'm getting myself in trouble by dreaming of faster cars. Well at least I got to kick my wife's car out of the garage and made my garage as it should be. And seeing the two cars next to each other, makes me realize I gotta get the tint on the ZHP.
As long as the F30 is dark blue, she'll never know! 😁

Don't listen to those people. It is completely reasonable and prudent to own three BMWs.
Haha, oh that sounds familiar...and perfectly reasonable too!

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[Vas]

I think all of us have peered over this ledge at some point in our zhp ownership, it's not our fault BMW failed to make what most of us would have if it existed (4 doors + s54).

That's not a bad price for that M3, I've been looking at them a little as well. Need to drive some more to really get a feel for it. I'm all about the color if I was to move from my zhp. I wouldn't want a color I don't like, "just to have an m3", sorry but that doesn't work for me.

I have the target car of BMW's consolation package: 4 doors, great handling and the "m" color, Imola Red. It would need to be a clean, Imola Red, Mystic blue, or interlagos blue m3 to get me to even consider switching and even then I'd want to play with the idea of having both like Charlie.

To play Devils advocate which in this case I guess could be both sides [emoji14]

This is northern VA, another reason I'm not in a rush to switch is an m3 is just not as special here compared to a zhp sedan...its "just another black m3" waiting to get you in trouble and a reckless driving ticket for "making noise and having the tires squeal a bit"

Yes. The car is a different animal, but the whole reason this forum exists is because of what the zhp package did to the 330 to make it the balance between all the variables we've mentioned.

I still say go for it because at the end of the day, if I was considering a COUPE I would have gotten an m3. All of what i said applied to the sedan as that is why they came up with the package in the first place and why I bought my car.

Sell zhp, buy m3, daily 328, be happy. And let me drive it! :D

Or sell both, buy an Imola Red sedan and supercharge it! :D
I agree with the color choice. I would not be fully satisfied if the m3 was a plain Jane color that everyone else has.

[Simmsled]

In March, lord willing, I will have 3 kids total.
I'm afraid the next step for me would be an E90 M3.

The E46 M3 will likely never reach my garage for lack of doors. The door count is one of the main reasons I bought a 4d ZHP in the first place.
But man is it a glorious drive...

[WOLFN8TR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99vwjBeWzFk&feature=youtu.be

[Lorenzo]

...Only thing is there is a time and place for everything, and right now financially I can't make an ///M work.


Thanks for all the sound advice. But as above, I agree that the timing has to be right. And with 1 1/2 years of college still to fund for my son, it is prudent for me to wait until he graduates and that big expense is behind me. And he's not living at home and less likely to steal the M3 from my garage! I just got my ZHP and I love this forum. So I will keep what I have, learn from others, have fun getting to know and upgrading and maintaining my ZHP. Then in two years, perhaps the timing will be right for an M3. They'll still be out there. And I may be able to afford one with lower mileage.

[Lorenzo]

http://youtu.be/99vwjBeWzFk

Awesome video! This one too. What a monster of a car.

http://youtu.be/AWpaWiBpw0w

[Lorenzo]

I went from a 2005 ZHP to a 2005 SMG M3 and absolutely love it! I don't find the maintenance to be all that much more so far. The insurance was about $10 more per month. I'm 46 and married so that helps. :)

That M3 is actually priced pretty low from what I've seen 6MT's going for. If you are seriously thinking of getting it take it for a PPI. Make sure they focus on the Vanos and sub frame. Take a look at my build thread when you get a chance. Good luck to ya...

Thanks for the advice. When I saw your first post I began reading through your project thread - I'm halfway through it - beautiful car and terrific updates. As I said in my post I think it makes best sense for me to stay with the ZHP and enjoy it for a few years. Then move on to an M3 in the future - like you and others have. It was sure fun test driving the M3 yesterday and getting a taste of what that car is all about.

[JupiterBMW]

You know, I just HAAAD to read this thread late last night. When I read it, I had never driven an E46 M3, so I didn't comment. My car is completely different than the E46, so I can't really compare.

Then I went to this morning's CCA monthly metope... A total of 6 or 7 E46 M3s showed up... I :drool a little, then I :wub a little, and then I got to talking with one of the owners ('06 Interlagos/Black ZCP coupe, 6 spd) and he let me take it for a drive... :shift

Holy crap, even owning an E90 ZCP M3, I still love the E46 ZCP M3... Now I'm shopping...

Pics and whatnot in the Daily pics thread... :roundel

[BMWCurves]

http://youtu.be/99vwjBeWzFk

Nice short video. I don't know why, but I was hoping after the first cut to the car's exterior and the driver was revving the engine and trying to look badass that he would stall the car and that would be the end of the video.

[UdubBadger]

I never regretted that leap - as much as I loved my ZHP.

If you can justify it, do it. This is the one M3 in the lineup every petrolhead should own at least once.

[UdubBadger]

You know, I just HAAAD to read this thread late last night. When I read it, I had never driven an E46 M3, so I didn't comment. My car is completely different than the E46, so I can't really compare.

Then I went to this morning's CCA monthly metope... A total of 6 or 7 E46 M3s showed up... I :drool a little, then I :wub a little, and then I got to talking with one of the owners ('06 Interlagos/Black ZCP coupe, 6 spd) and he let me take it for a drive... :shift

Holy crap, even owning an E90 ZCP M3, I still love the E46 ZCP M3... Now I'm shopping...

Pics and whatnot in the Daily pics thread... :roundel

It's true... :wub

[bosszhp]

So I will keep what I have, learn from others, have fun getting to know and upgrading and maintaining my ZHP. Then in two years, perhaps the timing will be right for an M3. They'll still be out there. And I may be able to afford one with lower mileage.

My thoughts exactly; being a member of the Mafia makes ZHP ownership even better. Like you said I'd rather wait till the time is right and get my "perfect" M3 instead of settling now for a cheap high mileage example.

[Lorenzo]

You know, I just HAAAD to read this thread late last night. When I read it, I had never driven an E46 M3, so I didn't comment. My car is completely different than the E46, so I can't really compare.

Then I went to this morning's CCA monthly metope... A total of 6 or 7 E46 M3s showed up... I :drool a little, then I :wub a little, and then I got to talking with one of the owners ('06 Interlagos/Black ZCP coupe, 6 spd) and he let me take it for a drive... :shift

Holy crap, even owning an E90 ZCP M3, I still love the E46 ZCP M3... Now I'm shopping...

Pics and whatnot in the Daily pics thread... :roundel

WOW! Best of luck. I look forward to reading your future M3 build thread:rockon:

[Au2bahn]

Bruce knows that a customized ZHP is better than a stock M3. But if you're money bags like Charlie with customized CSL clone M3, well different story :-)


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[Au2bahn]

And don't feed Larry more ammo. He already has a revolving door of car ownership.......just like Bruce at one point . Hahahhah


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[cakM3]

Bruce knows that a customized ZHP is better than a stock M3. But if you're money bags like Charlie with customized CSL clone M3, well different story :-)


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Nice Jon.....very nice! ;) Nice to see you here again! :thumbsup

[az3579]

Bruce knows that a customized ZHP is better than a stock M3. But if you're money bags like Charlie with customized CSL clone M3, well different story :-)


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He lives....... !

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[WOLFN8TR]

Thanks for the advice. When I saw your first post I began reading through your project thread - I'm halfway through it - beautiful car and terrific updates. As I said in my post I think it makes best sense for me to stay with the ZHP and enjoy it for a few years. Then move on to an M3 in the future - like you and others have. It was sure fun test driving the M3 yesterday and getting a taste of what that car is all about.

Welcome and Thank you for the compliment!

[johnrando]

Didn't read the comments. Gl w the choice, nothing wrong w taking that leap.

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[Whammy]

To quote Jeremy Clarkson, "straight six in the front, manual gearbox in the middle, and drive going to the rear. Page one, chapter one of the Petrosexual handbook"

ROFL

[BMWCurves]

ROFL

Haven't seen the episode? It's from the BMW 1M review from Episode 1 of Series 17. Quote is from 1:40:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6653530/top_gear_bmw_m1/

[az3579]

Many poo chutes. Many.

[Whammy]

Haven't seen the episode? It's from the BMW 1M review from Episode 1 of Series 17. Quote is from 1:40:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6653530/top_gear_bmw_m1/

Watched it last night. It's awesome and so is the 1M.

[BimmerDude]

Tough choice. I had a guy offer to trade me his 80k single owner Alpine white zcp M3 last year... Problem is he wanted both my e36 m3 and my ZHP :/
I dont know that I would let a 4door car go for a 2 door one... haveing a 5 year old and possibly another compels me to keep a 4 door. I say go for it its only your weekend car. All these maintenance figures your getting are for ppl that drive E46 M3's as dailys ( ithink) if your driving it on weekends thats less miles per year and less wear and tear.

[Au2bahn]

He lives....... !

Sent from my LG V10 on Tapatalk

Hehehe. I still chat with some mafia folks offline :-)

When are you coming back down BP?


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[cakM3]

Hehehe. I still chat with some mafia folks offline :-)

When are you coming back down BP?

Dude.... I'm getting a ride in your P-machine first.....

[az3579]

When are you coming back down BP?


When someone gives me a reason to. :)

[Lorenzo]

Well now that I decided to wait on M3 for a few years, I stumbled upon a 2004 Imola ZHP sedan, alcantara interior, with 51k miles, for $13K. Details are in this thread.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?17272-2004-Imola-Alcantara-ZHP-51K-miles-Auto

For my daily, I drive a 2012 F30 sedan, which has 31k miles. It is a good and practical daily. Cool and useful technology - heads up display, nav, display screen, fast 8 speed auto, good gas mileage (25mpg), etc. It is still under warranty thru October this year. But since I've owned my ZHP coupe (manual trans) that I drive on weekends, I prefer it. It has so much soul and is connected with the road like no other. But I don't want a coupe or manual trans as daily in DC traffic.

So I am considering selling the F30 and getting the Imola sedan as my daily. I think I can get $23-$25K for my F30. The objective would be to save money - since ZHP is about $10K-$12K less. And I could use the savings for my son's college. I realize I need to spend about $2000 initial preventative maintenance on ZHP. Plus I have to pay for transport, PPI, and taxes. So net savings is reduced to $7K-$9K. And this could evaporate over time since the ZHP is 8 years older than my F30 and will require more maintenance over a 5 year scenario.

I know a newer car has advantages as a daily over an older car. But we love our ZHPs, don't we :)

Does this switch make sense at any level?

[az3579]

Does this switch make sense at any level?

Not to me, personally. The F30 is a better daily. It's more comfortable, better on gas, has better tech, and in this case, will probably require less maintenance. That's just my take on it though.

If anything, the ZHP would be more entertaining at least.

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[fredo]

It makes some sense. Did you say your wife has a newer car ? In my case, my wife drives a 2008 Saab. That's the car we take on trips because is very dependable and only has 80,000 miles.

My 2 cars (ZHP and Mini) are year 2005 with 140,000 miles. They always need some TLC. However, this scenario is working fine for us. GL on your decision.

[UdubBadger]

Nevermind

GoingHAM mobile

[ELCID86]

Sent you a PM. I'd lean towards doing it if you can cover one semester of college and still have a great DD.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[Au2bahn]

Yes . It makes sense.


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[Lorenzo]

It makes some sense. Did you say your wife has a newer car ? In my case, my wife drives a 2008 Saab. That's the car we take on trips because is very dependable and only has 80,000 miles.

My 2 cars (ZHP and Mini) are year 2005 with 140,000 miles. They always need some TLC. However, this scenario is working fine for us. GL on your decision.

Yeh my wife has 2011 Volvo XC60 AWD SUV with 35k miles. She bought new through overseas delivery in Sweden. Great car. We use it for all long trips. She will be keeping it for a long time.

[Lorenzo]

Yes . It makes sense.


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Jon - you're just saying that because you know me - that I'll likely sell it in a year and you'd want to buy it as your daily!

[Vas]

Swap the f30 for a zhp.

[Lorenzo]

Swap the f30 for a zhp.

Doesn't look likely now. Spoke with my wife and she's totally against it. She's says I won't keep daily ZHP long enough to make it worth the swap. Then if I get newer car later, I would have spent more money and not incurred any savings.

[fredo]

Yeah, makes sense to keep the f30 as daily and the ZHP coupe for weekends. Sometimes I regret I sold my e90 instead of the Mini. Now I have two project cars (ZHP and Mini).

[Vas]

Doesn't look likely now. Spoke with my wife and she's totally against it. She's says I won't keep daily ZHP long enough to make it worth the swap. Then if I get newer car later, I would have spent more money and not incurred any savings.
Why won't you keep it long enough?

Even if you sell it in 1 year, it will still be a low mileage car.

Cheaper to insure, less property tax, etc

Easier to maintain etc. Does not really require trips to the dealer like the new cars.

[Lorenzo]

Why won't you keep it long enough?

Even if you sell it in 1 year, it will still be a low mileage car.

Cheaper to insure, less property tax, etc

Easier to maintain etc. Does not really require trips to the dealer like the new cars.

A few points:
- Agree on less taxes, less insurance, but...
- My F30 still has original warranty until October. So maintenance in the first few years after warranty expires should be minimal, I assume.
- Very little maintenance history known on the ZHP sedan, so I'd have to invest $2000-$3000 in first year to address the key preventative items (coolant system overhaul, tune-up, fluid changes, brake flush, possible new brakes, tires, battery, control arms, others). I suppose some of these items can be delayed).
- F30 has easy to use Bluetooth, hands-free calling. Which I use often for work.Sedan has after market unit w/Bluetooth. Perhaps it is just as good, but not sure
- F30 has parking sensors - which help a lot in the tight DC garages I'm often in during the week

And overhaul my wife is concerned the 2004 ZHP is not the right long term (7-10 year) daily driver compared to a modern 2012. If I could convince her otherwise, she may reconsider.

Maybe our wives should meet - ha.

[Vas]

All good points there. A modern car has all of the nice things for a daily driver.

Creature comforts are nice.

[Lorenzo]

All good points there. A modern car has all of the nice things for a daily driver.

Creature comforts are nice.

Damn I hate when my wife is right.:biggrin

[Vas]

Damn I hate when my wife is right
It took me a while to convince my wife to get a zhp for her. Came down to the fact that I can fix it myself, parts are cheap since its over 10 years old and that all of the new technology is distracting when you drive.

Plus you never know how a new car will hold up in 5-10 years. But it does not matter if you sell it.

[Lorenzo]

and that all of the new technology is distracting when you drive.

I completely agree on this. Just the other day I was in a car with three other folks from work and the guy that was driving had one hand on the wheel the other hand he held his cell phone - the entire 1 Hour drive to DC. He was constantly looking and being distracted at the Waze app for navigation. Made me so nervous.

[Lorenzo]

Yeah, makes sense to keep the f30 as daily and the ZHP coupe for weekends. Sometimes I regret I sold my e90 instead of the Mini. Now I have two project cars (ZHP and Mini).

Yeh, if I got the ZHP sedan, I too would have two project cars. It would be fun, but also time consuming. Now I can focus on my ZHP coupe as my single project car and not worry about daily with F30.

But I do LOVE the look of the Imola ZHP sedan! I just need a bigger garage. I guess we all do.

[Vas]

Two zhp cars can be a handful I will agree

[ELCID86]

Two zhp cars can be a handful I will agree

+1

Sounds like "yes dear" is the right answer here.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[Rovert]

Wife > Family Needs > Shelter > Food > Cars > Fun Car

[Vas]

Wife > Family Needs > Shelter > Food > Cars > Fun Car

That is only in Canada lol

[BMWCurves]

That is only in Canada lol

And for the married. If "bachelor" then ">" = "<"*












*I do not understand a lick of computer programming beyond basic Python.

[Lorenzo]

I've been searching for an automatic ZHP sedan for the past month to possibly replace my more expensive F30. I've received good advice regarding the pros and cons. And I've been waivering back and forth on this decision. Having two ZHPs for my own use doesn't seem right or necessary. So I expanded my search to non ZHPs with low mileage to see what I could find.

Today I found what I think may be a compelling option for a Daily Driver that shouldn't require much initial maintenance compared to the others I've seen. On e46 fanatics I found a 2003 330xi with only 39,500 miles. Steel Grey with black interior. Seller is an enthusiast. Car seems in mint condition. Price is $11,500. He did a few nice mods like OEM MTech II bumper. Also, has Nav. Obviously outdated but can be replaced with new Dynavin Head unit to get modern interface to iPhone etc. See link below for pics and details. Since the car is in NJ, its easy to pick up and drive home.

I'd appreciate input and point of view on:
1. Is the price right?
2. Is 2003 a reliable year for 330xi? He said it was the first year of facelift.
3. Are there reliability or maintenance concerns with AWD
4. Reliability or maintenance concerns with automatic transmission ?

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1079969

[ELCID86]

Price seems high to me but the Mike's are low. Maintenance history?


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[fredo]

Facelift on e46 sedan is 2002 to 2005.

[Lorenzo]

Price seems high to me but the Mike's are low. Maintenance history?


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

First owner had for 12 years. Maintenance history unknown. Current owner, past 15 months, has done two oil changes, 3 window regulators, and alternator. He says brakes (pads and rotors) are fine.

'Mikes are low?' What did you mean Shawn?

[Vas]

It's past Shawn's bedtime. He meant miles.

[Lorenzo]

:like
It's past Shawn's bedtime. He meant miles.

[Vas]

Maybe Bruce can shed some insight since he had a 330xi for a little.

Personally I like the miles and the color. I do think the price is a bit high and those wheels don't suit the car. It just sits too high.

[Lorenzo]

Maybe Bruce can shed some insight since he had a 330xi for a little.

Personally I like the miles and the color. I do think the price is a bit high and those wheels don't suit the car. It just sits too high.

Owner has the OEM wheels and is selling along with the car at no extra charge.

[BCS_ZHP]

The e46 xi's can sometimes tear the front CV boots, the grease gets slung out and if you don't notice the CV joint gets destroyed. Jon can check for this and he can also fix it if it is torn. I read about but never experienced that the transfer case can develop a harmonic imbalance at higher mileage, replacing the t-case is the way to fix that problem. Otherwise, it's just normal e46 maintenance to stay up on.

[Lorenzo]

The e46 xi's can sometimes tear the front CV boots, the grease gets slung out and if you don't notice the CV joint gets destroyed. Jon can check for this and he can also fix it if it is torn. I read about but never experienced that the transfer case can develop a harmonic imbalance at higher mileage, replacing the t-case is the way to fix that problem. Otherwise, it's just normal e46 maintenance to stay up on.

Bruce - how'd did you feel about the driving experience in the xi? Did you use as a daily? How'd long did you have one and why'd you sell?

[BCS_ZHP]

We had it about 7-8 months, used it as a winter sled. You absolutely can't hang the rear end out, the traction won't let go. It rode comparable to a non-ZHP 330 but not as much road feel/feedback as a ZHP. When the Audi employee lease deal came about for my son, we leased 2 AWD A4s, thus didn't have a need for it any further. It was a scarce 330xi 6 spd sport pkg, look hard and hopefully you'll find one like that, the manual tranny made it more fun.

[fredo]

It's past Shawn's bedtime. He meant miles.

LOL ... I didn't connect the dots.

[Au2bahn]

The e46 xi's can sometimes tear the front CV boots, the grease gets slung out and if you don't notice the CV joint gets destroyed. Jon can check for this and he can also fix it if it is torn. I read about but never experienced that the transfer case can develop a harmonic imbalance at higher mileage, replacing the t-case is the way to fix that problem. Otherwise, it's just normal e46 maintenance to stay up on.

Love it when Bruce sends work my way. :-). Only difference is the transfer case and impossible to lower the car. Xi 's just feels different on an E46


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[Au2bahn]

IMO One old school and a new school car makes it more fun. Having similar cars with the same motor as a DD and weekend car makes it boring.


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[johnrando]

Hey Jon!

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[Lorenzo]

IMO One old school and a new school car makes it more fun. Having similar cars with the same motor as a DD and weekend car makes it boring.


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Definitely see your point Jon. Have two ZHPs could make the one I have feel less special. But my F30 has been sitting on the street gathering dust and dirt. I drove it the other day and was shocked on how disconnected it felt. So why keep making monthly payments on this new car when I could spend $9K-$14K on a solid e46 auto sedan. Earlier this week I was eyeing a $9000 ZHP 2005 mystic blue/grey interior auto trans sedan, enthusiast owned. That's a big savings. Charlie sent me note on a relatively simple Bluetooth TCU module install that would allow hands free calling. That would make the sedan more practical for work day use.

[ELCID86]

It's past Shawn's bedtime. He meant miles.

Lol. Thanks for the assist Vas!


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[BMWCurves]

Definitely see your point Jon. Have two ZHPs could make the one I have feel less special. But my F30 has been sitting on the street gathering dust and dirt. I drove it the other day and was shocked on how disconnected it felt. So why keep making monthly payments on this new car when I could spend $9K-$14K on a solid e46 auto sedan. Earlier this week I was eyeing a $9000 ZHP 2005 mystic blue/grey interior auto trans sedan, enthusiast owned. That's a big savings. Charlie sent me note on a relatively simple Bluetooth TCU module install that would allow hands free calling. That would make the sedan more practical for work day use.

Sounds like you're pretty set on getting rid of the F30 in favor of an E46 then?

[Lorenzo]

Sounds like you're pretty set on getting rid of the F30 in favor of an E46 then?

Yes, I think so. Several cars out there that are far less costly than my F30.

1. Mystic blue/grey ZHP sedan w/91k mi for $9000. Dallas
2. Imola/black ZHP sedan w/72k mi for $14.000. Ohio
3. Steel grey/black 330xi sedan w/39k mi for $11,500. NJ

I think the $9k mystic blue one is the best of this lot. And over time there will obviously be more cars to be found.

[Lorenzo]

I'm considering a BMW 2005 325 sedan. The car is located in Boston. Does anyone know of a good shop there that can do a comprehensive PPI ?

[ELCID86]

Check bimmershops.com.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[BMWCurves]

Check bimmershops.com.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

+1

[Lorenzo]

Thanks. Bimmer shops was great - found a couple of highly rated shops close to where the car is in Waltham MA. I'm excited about this car - it's a 325, fully loaded -sport and premium package, heated seats, patk distance control, Harman Kardon, Xenons. It's not easy to find all those features in a 325. And has only 59,000 miles.

I'm still working to find the previous maintenance history but I don't think there was a lot done other than the minimum. My assumptions for the key initial maintenance items to do once I buy the car within the first few months are:

1. Oils -Engine, Differential, Power steering
2. Filters – engine, air cabin
3. Brake flush
4. Coolant overhaul – water pump, belts, pulleys, tensioners, etc. I assume this wait until a little higher mileage 70/80K.
5. Tuneup - Spark plugs, valve cover gasket
6. Suspension – control arms. If condition is OK I assume I can wait until higher mileage - 75/80K.
7. Battery - replace if original
8. Fuel filter
9. Transmission - is a fluid change recommended for automatic transmission?
10. Front and rear brake pads sensors and rotors if needed

Any other key items recommended?

[ELCID86]

Glad it helped. So will this be your DD?


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[Lorenzo]

Glad it helped. So will this be your DD?


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

Shawn - yes, the 325 would be my daily and I'd sell my 2012 328 sedan. I've done a work up of the five-year cost between the 325 and the newer 328 and I've come up with about $15,000 of total savings when you factor in maintenance insurance property taxes and loan payment differences. The 325 is listed for $8800 - I think I can get it down to $8250-$8500. But it all hinges on a good PPI.

I've been driving my ZHP about 4-5 days a week, and the sedan the other days, when it's raining or I need to go into DC. So which is the daily and which is the weekend car is difficult to say.

[FL116]

I have never owned an M3, and probably never will lol but when I drove Jon's 03 M3, it was very fun. And power is great, and I love the performance you get out of it. But when I got back into my ZHP, it just felt better to me. I'm not sure why the I like the ZHP more, but I do. Very strange lol but if you could, I would daily a ZHP and have an M3 as a weekend car for sure.

[bosszhp]

I have never owned an M3, and probably never will lol but when I drove Jon's 03 M3

Blasphemy. Everyone has to own an E46 M3 at least once!

[cakM3]

Everyone has to own an E46 M3 at least once!

I fully support this statement :thumbsup


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[Simmsled]

Thanks. Bimmer shops was great - found a couple of highly rated shops close to where the car is in Waltham MA. I'm excited about this car - it's a 325, fully loaded -sport and premium package, heated seats, patk distance control, Harman Kardon, Xenons. It's not easy to find all those features in a 325. And has only 59,000 miles.

I'm still working to find the previous maintenance history but I don't think there was a lot done other than the minimum. My assumptions for the key initial maintenance items to do once I buy the car within the first few months are:

1. Oils -Engine, Differential, Power steering
2. Filters – engine, air cabin
3. Brake flush
4. Coolant overhaul – water pump, belts, pulleys, tensioners, etc. I assume this wait until a little higher mileage 70/80K.
5. Tuneup - Spark plugs, valve cover gasket Beisan Vanos Seals... your plugs can wait till later
6. Suspension – control arms. If condition is OK I assume I can wait until higher mileage - 75/80K. Most likely won't be needed, however control arm BUSHINGS likely will, along with alignment
7. Battery - replace if original
8. Fuel filter
9. Transmission - is a fluid change recommended for automatic transmission? yes, Dexron VI and filter (Havoline Dexron VI is full synthetic, as is Valvoline Dexron VI). Get a case of 12 for at least a couple drain/fills. You can get the AC Delco (Filtran) filter and gasket (the EXACT same as BMW Genuine) for a same year CTS on Amazon for WAY cheaper
10. Front and rear brake pads sensors and rotors if needed

Any other key items recommended?

Steering flex disc.
Also, check for oil leaks... if your oil filter housing gasket is leaking, get a CCV kit and do both at the same time. Don't forget either VANOS oil line and gaskets, or just the gaskets at the same time. By having off the oil filter housing, doing the CCV is MUCH easier.

If the tires are older than about 8 years, consider new ones.

You may also need to address the ZKW burned bowls situation. TheRetrofitSource (TRS) has a relatively easy solution for a solid price. There is a DIY in the lighting section.

Good luck!!!

[Lorenzo]

PPI for the black Boston 325 with 58k miles turned up mixed results. Car is been neglected the last few years. Sits on street most of the time in the Boston area, with minimal driving. Needs TLC. Some oil leaks, but not to the floor - further diagnosis needed. Needs new fluids, control arms, sway bar, some minor body body work, tuneup, belts. And he's asking $8800. I think I can get for $8000. I'm on the fence.

I also found a Japan Red 330 sedan with 88k miles in San Diego for $8000. PPI revealed the exterior and interior of the car was exceptional. key maintenance items needed is new oil pan and gasket, transmission service including transmission pan and gasket, and new front strut is leaking a little.

Still not sure if I want to pull the trigger on either of these. Each has its pros and cons versus keeping the F30 2012 sedan I currently have as DD. I think either E46 will be less costly vs continuing loan payment on the F30 in the next four years. But after that I'm not sure what would make sense long term. My f30 has 32k miles.

[ELCID86]

The Boston one seems to be priced high if neglected like it sounds. Look for a southern car. Cali is ok but plan on $1000+ shipping.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - anonymous

[Lorenzo]

After a 3 month search, I found and purchased my new daily driver. Single owner, well-maintained, low mileage 325xi. Always garaged and serviced at BMW Alexandria. Came with last three years of maintenance receipts (over $7,000 spent) from a variety of work done at the dealer - way overpaid. But I was happy to have the information and the history.

It had all the options that I wanted (except for no Harmon Kardon). Purchased from a small BMW speciality dealer in Arlington, VA - the owner (Sean) is good friends with Bruce. Thanks Bruce for the recommendation. Here are the details.

Year: 2004
Model: 325xi Sedan
Exterior Color: Electric (Japan) Red
Interior: Beige
Transmission: Automatic
Options: Sport, Premium, and Cold Weather Pkg, Heated front seats, AWD, Xenon headlights
Purchased Date: April 2, 2016
Price: $8,414 ($7,600 plus $814 taxes, tags, fees)
Mileage at purchase: 67,910 miles
VIN: WBAEU33434PR10620

Previous Owner's Maintenance
April 2007 oil change and brake flush (21K miles)
April 2009 Inspection I Service (36K miles)
Dec 2011 (50,293)
1. Oil Change
2. Cabin Air Filter
3. Brake Flush
4. Replace Power Steering Pressure Hose Assembly
5. Power Steering Flush/Fill
6. Coolant Flush/Fill
7. Replaced Accessory Belt (Alternator/Water Pump/Power Steering)
8. Replaced Accessory Belt (Air Conditioning Compressor)

Sept 2014 (62,645). New Battery

Oct 2014 (62,954)
1. Oil Change
2. Brake Flush
3. Engine Air Filter
4. Cabin Air Filter
5. Front and Rear Brakes Pads/Rotors/Sensors
6. Replaced Right Front Axle Boots
7. Replace Rear Springs
8. Two New Tires (Continental PureContact 205/50/R17 93V
9. Repair Rear Taillight Ground (Recall)
10. New Passenger Airbag (recall)

April 2016 - Oil Change (BMW 5W-30)

My maintenance/mods
April 2016 -68,000 miles
1. Change Differential fluid (Redline 75W90)
2. Change fuel filter
3. Repair Front left axle boots.
4. Install new spark plugs
5. Alignment and steering angle calibration
6. Tires - 2 Rear Continental DWS06.
7. New M3 Steering Wheel

Future maintenance and mods

1. Remove spoiler and repaint
2. Window Tint
3. Homelink install
4. Bluetooth install
5. iPod interface
6. Windshield Cowl
7. New Shift knob
8. Coolant system overhaul - 2017
9. Control arms - 2017

[Lorenzo]

Even got original MSRP sticker

[BMWCurves]

Awesome, looks great!

Did the previous owner put that trunk spoiler on it?

[Lorenzo]

Awesome, looks great!

Did the previous owner put that trunk spoiler on it?

Yes. I don't like it. It's too big and looks out of place. It will look cleaner once removed.

[ELCID86]

Congrats

[Vas]

Good find

[Lorenzo]

Thanks guys! Doesn't drive at all like my ZHP. But it's much improved after the maintenance work was done. I'm looking forward to treking through the snow next winter with the AWD.

[fredo]

Sounds like a solid car. Congrats.

[fw_fw]

Thanks guys! Doesn't drive at all like my ZHP. But it's much improved after the maintenance work was done. I'm looking forward to treking through the snow next winter with the AWD.

It is quite a difference between AWD BMWs and rear-drive. I can't make the tail on my X1 come out unless I get REALLY stupid, however on my ZHP and past BMWs that was half the fun, a nice controlled oversteer before the electronic nannies kick in...