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View Full Version : E39 M5: front end shake driving me nuts, nobody can resolve (so far)



KevinC
02-04-2016, 01:21 PM
So I'm turning to my ZHP brethren and their expertise, hoping for some help. The car: my E39 M5, purchased last July from EAG - fresh off an $8300 (!) work order to bring it up to snuff. 59k miles at the time, 64.5k miles now. The car had new thrust arm bushings installed during that service, no other suspension work deemed necessary.

The car comes home and has a minor shake in the front end, at 53-55 mph. It's not severe, seems to just be a run-of-the-mill tire balance issue, so I don't alert EAG nor even address it right away. It's not a common cruising speed so it's just a minor annoyance. So I thought.

I finally have the wheels rebalanced. No change. I then have them done a second time. Again no change. So I haul it off to my local indy, a grizzled veteran BMW guy with plenty of E39 experience. He examines it and deems all the suspension components to be in excellent health. He's convinced that the wheels just need to be balanced properly, suggests letting him sub it out to the wheel shop across from him and have them road force balanced on the Hunter GSP9700 machine. So that gets done - and again, no change. Shake still there. I start to communicate with EAG and their head mechanic jumps in, wants to know how the readings were from the road force rebalance. Unfortunately the shop did not supply the report and nobody will return a call, so I don't have the answer to that question. I wind up deciding to replace the front tires, which are half-shot anyways, with fresh Michelin PSS's (which the car already had all-around). No change. It's then suggested from various sources to have the car aligned. Had that done, turns out it was considerably out of alignment, particularly in the rear. It now tracks much better (was a bit of a wanderer before), and SOMETIMES the shake is gone - but not always! I can take it out for a run, and not experience it at all. I can take it out the following day, over the same roads and general route, and it's there in spades. I was beginning to think it only happens when the car is "cold" but that turns out to not be a factor.

Other notes: when the car was aligned, the new tires were a few days old. The alignment tech claims that both fronts have excessive run-out, and spun the wheels to show me that you can see that they aren't perfectly round. No idea if that's a tire or wheel issue - though a bent wheel should have turned up during the balance process, no? I will probably return to Discount Tire and have them check for run-out, because if the tires are not right, then I want them replaced. But the problem existed before and is no different with these, so I don't think this is the ultimate resolution anyways.

What else could be to blame here? Some of suggested LCABs but my guy (whom I trust implicitly) claims they're fine. But can an eyeball judgement be 100% reliable? Anywhere else to look/try? I hate to keep throwing $$ at the problem, but it's now driving me completely insane and MUST be quashed ASAP!

Thanks for any pointers.

slater
02-04-2016, 01:55 PM
weird. interesting that it is better, albeit still there, after the alignment.

what does the E39 rear suspension look like?

does it have a steering flex disc like the E46?

i'm guessing it's bad rubber somewhere.

az3579
02-04-2016, 02:13 PM
A bent wheel can absolutely cause an issue like this, though if they're not bent that badly then it should have balanced out fine. Perhaps try having them straightened and rebalanced?

Vas
02-04-2016, 02:21 PM
The road balance machine is very nice that it detects if a tire is within spec. BUT...

You stated that the wheels are not 100% straight. The machine will balance the wheel and tire however if a wheel is not perfectly round, you will feel that on the car even though the machine states that its balanced.

You can jack up the car in your garage and spin the wheel by hand. Take a look at it and see if it is bent.

bosszhp
02-04-2016, 03:11 PM
The weirdest thing is that I had this SAME problem on my E39 Touring, however, I'm pretty sure that was because of the wheel setup I was running (had E60 rims on it). New tires, alignment, etc. did nothing to solve the problem for me. I would think it's a small bend or something involving the wheels, but you would've thought that they would have detected that by now. :dunno

Sockethead
02-04-2016, 03:32 PM
Are you running a square wheel setup? If so, switch front to back and see if anything changes....

KevinC
02-04-2016, 04:21 PM
You stated that the wheels are not 100% straight. .

Didn't actually say that - don't know if they're true, or possibly may be bent. The road force machine will determine that for sure, no? Heck even a visual while on that machine should show a bend, I'd think. What perplexes me about that theory is that the shop that already road forced 'em once gave no indication of any problem. If there were a bend, I'd think they'd be all over it as they are a wheel repairer/refinisher and would have wanted to do the additional work.

I think I'll hit Discount Tire first because I'm sure I can talk them in to road force balancing the new ones since run-out is apparent when mounted on the car (visually spun by hand when mounted). I watched both of them spin at the alignment shop - I could see the top edge of the tire tread moving ever so slightly up and down, indicating being out of round, but the wheels themselves *seemed* to spin true, implying the tires were the problem. Once that's sorted, if still not solved, I'll go from there. Perhaps LCABs would be the logical thing to replace next.

As to the question above about a flex disc in the steering system - I dunno, it's a completely different (recirculating ball) setup than our ZHPs (r&p). On question re running a square setup - no, it's staggered, so I can't swap ends.

Thanks for all the input so far, keep 'em coming. I'll update the thread as I progress towards (hopeful) resolution.

BMWCurves
02-04-2016, 04:23 PM
My father's 540i had this I think, I'll have to ask him if it's a) fixed and b) if it was fixed, what the issue was.

az3579
02-04-2016, 06:09 PM
Just to be clear - Just because the tires are staggered, doesn't mean you can flip 'em back to front and vice versa just to diagnose an issue. As long as they fit, they can be used temporarily...

Doing this will at least give you an idea of it's the wheel/tires or something suspension related, as long as the rears are true and round.

Johnmadd
02-04-2016, 06:29 PM
Just a thought but, it's always said to get the lcab's on and drop the car immediately and then torque them down, if you didn't put them on and the process wasn't follewed correctly this could be the issue even if they look fine.

Sockethead
02-04-2016, 07:24 PM
The e39 suspension is different. It doesn't have LCAB. It has thrust arm bushings in a link that comes off the front of the lower control arm and connect to the body but as you would suspect, they are made of the same fluid filled material and need to be torqued with the vehicle on the ground... they are total crap just like e 46 bushings