Clutch

[rkneeshaw]

I know the options aren't many for our 6-speed applications.

But has anyone tried the sachs performance clutch kit?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-393887-sachs-performance-clutch-kit-organic-clutch-disc-e39-e46-z3/

?

At 136k miles I'm probably due for a replacement. I will keep the dual mass flywheel. Trying to decide between OEM clutch or this kit.

I daily drive the car in the summer and do maybe 3-4 HPDE track events per year.

[Sockethead]

What about the e39 m5 clutch... I forget if that's an option for the 6 speed... That's the direction I was going to go. How much HP are you getting at the flywheel? 375?
I think it would also depend on how small a pulley you're going to eventually put on that super charger :)

BTW a couple of members (BP and Peter) found that the dual mass flywheel was shot too so I'd plan on replacing that as well

[Newjack]

What about the e39 m5 clutch... I forget if that's an option for the 6 speed... That's the direction I was going to go. How much HP are you getting at the flywheel? 375?
I think it would also depend on how small a pulley you're going to eventually put on that super charger :)

I remember someone getting the M5 clutch on their ZHP and they ended up hating it because of how heavy it was for regular daily driving. I don't skip leg day so I couldn't care less. As long as it holds power and doesn't chatter at idle and under load.

I think it's a good solution, but something to think about is pedal feel.

[Sockethead]

Hmm I thought the M5 pressure plate was comparable to the stock pressure plate. That's why i was considering it. I've had 4 operations on my clutch knee...

[Vas]

I need to check the records but my Imola car had a clutch kit installed before I bought it from Turner Motorsports.

[Fenrir]

I've heard good things about the Sachs clutch but have never driven a car with one. UUC is also a good option.

I had the an M5 clutch until September of last year. It is pretty heavy but I enjoyed it. It was a kit that came with the UUC single mass flywheel. I went with the UUC street organic clutch with their lightweight flywheel this time. Little lighter on the leg but pulls just as hard. The M5 clutch will stand up to a lot of use and abuse.

[05Imola]

I just bought the ECS kit they have that switches to a single mass flywheel. Have to make time to install it but I heard good things about it

[Newjack]

I've heard good things about the Sachs clutch but have never driven a car with one. UUC is also a good option.

I had the an M5 clutch until September of last year. It is pretty heavy but I enjoyed it. It was a kit that came with the UUC single mass flywheel. I went with the UUC street organic clutch with their lightweight flywheel this time. Little lighter on the leg but pulls just as hard. The M5 clutch will stand up to a lot of use and abuse.

How did the single mass flywheel behave? Was it loud with a lot of chatter at idle? What about with load (A/C, radio, headlights)?

[Fenrir]

It chatters once you break it in but you'll rarely notice it in the car unless you have the windows down. Even with the chatter.

As far as load, I've never noticed any issues. The car revs faster and pulls harder. I'm on my second lightweight setup and wouldn't go back.

[Reasoned1]

I installed the Valeo single-mass kit on my 2005 330xi (sport package) recently, and I think it's great. I don't have any chatter and, although I have to feather my release a bit more, I find it very smooth. I think they're very popular, but I have read a few complaints about what I perceive as the minor and expected difference between single- and dual-mass design.

[Smolck]

Back in the day, sprung disc setups were all there was for my Mustangs. Noise and a heavy pedal was “normal”. We actually went with billet steel HEAVY flywheels for drag racing. I think lots of folks are too sensitive to sound and pedal weight. Lightweight flywheels and sprung disc clutches are a great upgrade.

[az3579]

I installed the Valeo single-mass kit on my 2005 330xi (sport package) recently, and I think it's great. I don't have any chatter and, although I have to feather my release a bit more, I find it very smooth. I think they're very popular, but I have read a few complaints about what I perceive as the minor and expected difference between single- and dual-mass design.This kit chatters a pretty excessively in my car. It feels fine to drive with but there is also more harshness (thunk) when letting out the clutch.

Just throwing another perspective into the mix.

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[Sockethead]

I'm from the old school of drag racing too... heavy flywheels, 11" Pressure plates, a "scattersheild" bell housing that could contain a clutch explosion drive shaft loop in case the front u-joint broke and turned the drive shaft into a pogo stick and a really strong left leg :) I never new dual mass flywheels even existed until I got my bimmer

As much as I want to experiment with a light weight flywheel or a single mass flywheel, I'm probably going to stick with the dual mass and the upgraded Sachs clutch. My reasoning is that it's a big investment in money and time for me. I don't want to be stuck with something I don't like.
Kristen's 135 had the stock clutch and dual mass flywheel in it and she had around 475 hp at the flywheel and we zero issues with that .. even at the drag strip.

If anyone wants to post a sound clip or video of the chatter, I'd like to hear it. My opinion may change if I had the opportunity to drive a car with one of those upgrades...

[az3579]

If anyone wants to post a sound clip or video of the chatter, I'd like to hear it. My opinion may change if I had the opportunity to drive a car with one of those upgrades...

I'll try to get a video of it today. Not much going on for me today.

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[Fenrir]

Back in the day, sprung disc setups were all there was for my Mustangs. Noise and a heavy pedal was “normal”. We actually went with billet steel HEAVY flywheels for drag racing. I think lots of folks are too sensitive to sound and pedal weight. Lightweight flywheels and sprung disc clutches are a great upgrade.Diiiiiittoo!!

Sent from the missing 10mm

[Phillips0417]

I’m very happy with my JB Racing flywheel and Clutchmasters FX300 setup. I don’t have any chatter with this but my idle is slightly raised.

[Sockethead]

This looks interesting... http://www.clutchmasters.com/fx100-03cm3-hd00-sk/

Description with the usual disclaimer about gear rattle: http://www.clutchmasters.com/steel-flywheels/

[rkneeshaw]

Its been a while since I've visited clutchmasters, they've got a lot more support for the 6-speed application than last time I checked, thats very cool. I had the FX300 on my list at one point years ago.

I'm going to stick with the dual-mass flywheel because:
a) Oil pump nut and harmonics - there's a theory that the harmonics aren't good as it is, and a lightweight flywheel could exasperate the issue.
b) Absolutely don't want gear rattle. I had it in my old car, which was a ford, it wasn't too terrible and I could tolerate it with that car. With the BMW I just can't do it, I want to keep the car "refined", so this is something I don't want to compromise on.

I can't really find any reports of anyone running that sachs performance clutch though, I might have to be the first.

[Whammy]

I don't skip leg day so I couldn't care less.

:rofl

[05Imola]

Ive had the Valeo Kit installed for more than two weeks now. The kit chatters a bit but its much smoother than the OEM setup. I'm happy with it and I dont really notice it very often.

[rkneeshaw]

So if you want to keep the dual mass flywheel, you basically have three options:

1. Stock Sachs clutch
2. Sachs Performance clutch
3. Spec stage 1+ clutches

I chose the Sachs performance clutch, I haven't heard a lot about it, but I'll install it and let you know what I think. Have to order it from Germany, but they ship via UPS and it arrived within 3 days, impressive! I'll try not to be too biased based on the pack of gummy bears I found in the box from Sachs :)

https://preview.ibb.co/eXMrBz/IMG_20181003_1802447.jpg (https://ibb.co/iPqjWz)

https://preview.ibb.co/jq4pye/IMG_20181003_1803391.jpg (https://ibb.co/nfp04K)

[Vas]

If you don't mind posting the cost breakdown and part numbers please of that setup.

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[RUS_ZHP]

That's is a lot of interesting info here guys. Thanks for putting it together. I am thinking about clutch replacement sometime next spring and started doing some research.

Vas, you already past breaking period on your single mass conversion and new clutch? Is there any changes from your initial impressions?

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[Vas]

That's is a lot of interesting info here guys. Thanks for putting it together. I am thinking about clutch replacement sometime next spring and started doing some research.

Vas, you already past breaking period on your single mass conversion and new clutch? Is there any changes from your initial impressions?

Sent from my SM-G900V using TapatalkI am past the break in point. No complaints about the clutch and the way it feels. I do like that it got rid of the self adjusting clutch that is factory.

However I do dislike the noise from the single mass flywheel. Enough to go back to a dual mass flywheel this winter or spring

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[rkneeshaw]

If you don't mind posting the cost breakdown and part numbers please of that setup.

Certainly, this is from my cost/parts spreadsheet for the clutch job (also attached as a zip since the text formatting in this post looks like poo), I'm taking care of a few other things while I'm in there

Sachs Performance Clutch Organic 1 881864999515KT *$ * * 785.00* Sachs Germany
LUK Dual Mass Flywheel 1 21207533868 *$ * * 344.00* ECS Tuning
Transmission Mounts 2 22322282340 *$ * * * *60.00* ECS Tuning
Poly Shifter rebuild kit 1 PBTSRKT16 *$ * * 125.00* ECS Tuning
ECS Clutch Fork Pivot Pin 1 013236ECS01A *$ * * * *36.00* ECS Tuning
Rear main seal 1 11141438274 *$ * * 110.00* FCPEuro
Pressure Plate Screw 6 7119906045 *$ * * * * *6.00* FCPEuro
Clutch alignment tool 1 CT1014 *$ * * * * *5.00* FCPEuro
LUK Throw-out Bearing 1 21517521360 *$ * * * *40.00* FCPEuro
Guibo 1 26117511454 *$ * * * *45.00* FCPEuro
Center Support Bearing 1 26127501257 *$ * * * *25.00* FCPEuro
Flywheel bolt 8 11227519572 *$ * * * *45.00* FCPEuro
Spring clip 1 21517570284 *$ * * * * *5.00* FCPEuro
Butyl Tape 1 26127511140 *$ * * * * *5.00* FCPEuro
Driveshaft Centering Sleeve 1 26117526611 *$ * * * * *9.00* FCPEuro
Self locking nut 6 7129900047 *$ * * * * *8.00* FCPEuro
Cylinder head dowel pin 1 11111743118 *$ * * * * *2.00* FCPEuro

Excel spreadsheet: 34043

[Vas]

Thanks for that info. That is the ideal set-up since it still uses the dual mass flywheel but the clutch pressure plate is no longer a self adjusting unit.

Only downside is the cost but that cost is much cheaper then some places I seen. Did you order it directly from their German website and they shipped it to the states?

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[rkneeshaw]

Yep, and i was really surprised how fast it arrived internationally like that. Honestly the whole transaction with them was super smooth, like any other state-side ecomm experience. You'll get a UPS tracking number and it'll show up like 3 days later.

[Vas]

Nice looking forward to your review
Yep, and i was really surprised how fast it arrived internationally like that. Honestly the whole transaction with them was super smooth, like any other state-side ecomm experience. You'll get a UPS tracking number and it'll show up like 3 days later.

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[rkneeshaw]

Clutch is in.

While I was in there I replaced the dual mass flywheel, throw-out/release bearing, clutch fork pivot pin, CSB, guibo, shifter linkages and bushings, and the rear main seal.

The pedal is for sure heavier than stock. It took me a bit to get used to it. My buddy has an e39 M5 and thinks its fairly similar to his car, maybe slightly heavier, for whatever that's worth. But the engagement is very much like stock, its very smooth, and you can engage it gradually just like stock for smooth takeoffs. But it for sure has more clamp, because if you need to drop the clutch quick it bites without any fuss.

The new dual mass made a difference too. No more jerk or bounce when idling along in first or second gear, if you know what I mean. Its very stable now, going from a steady roll to accelerating or even decelerating.

I highly recommend the Turner poly shifter arm bushing refresh "kit". it includes the poly shifter arm bushing and the oem parts neccesary to rebuild your shifter. Its awesome. Shifts are so crisp and tight and the shifter has no slop. Due to the poly bushing you get a little bit of vibration in the shifter that you can feel, but honestly most of you might not notice it and just figure its a product of a tight precise shifter. A+++

To do it all again I would not change my choice, overall I'm quite happy with this setup. I prefer this setup over the stock clutch, primarily because I needed the better clamping force and don't mind the heavier pedal feel. My stock clutch had 140k on it and it still looked good. I think it just couldn't hold the power I'm putting down. But if I had a NA car? I'd probably stay stock for the light pedal feel. Just refresh all the other bits in there while you're at it, you'll be glad you did.

[rkneeshaw]

For those interested, this is the correct sachs performance clutch part for our ZHPs (22 spline): https://www.sachsperformance.com/en/clutch-kit/performance-clutch-sachs/performance-clutch-kit-001243-999515

[Sockethead]

Sound like a winner. Thanks for posting the direct link. I'll be ordering that real soon. [emoji4]

[Vas]

Thanks for the review. And the link.

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