What would replace your ZHP?

[joeybananaz18]

So, this week most of the north east got its first taste of winter. It was a bit of a surprise how early in the season we got hit. A lot of the tree on my property still have greenish leaves on them. It being a surprise, i didn't have my snows mounted and PSS aren't exactly the best choice for the 8 inches of snow we got in my area. I ended up borrowing my wife's CR-V to drive down to the train with and it got me back and forth like a tank. The problem was that I didn't at all like the idea of my wife being home with our baby and not having a way to around in case of an emergency, as she can't drive stick either. She didn't have a problem with it but did say that it would be nice if we had two cars that 1. wouldn't be impeded by snow, and 2. that she could drive.

I really do not want to give up the ZHP- bottom line is I'm having too much fun with it but I understand her concerns. I asked her how she'd feel about me getting a winter beater and she would prefer for us to just stick to 2 cars. I want to get the ZHP and honest try through one or two winters (last year doesn't really count as it spent most of the cold in my parents garage).

The only thing thats ever been on my radar that would satisfy my and my wife's requirements is the Audi S3- 4 door, AWD, twin clutch auto, around 300hp and about the same proportions as the e46.

So I wanted to put it out to the forum and ask, if you had to replace your ZHP tomorrow to meet the requirements of all that would be driving it, what would you go check out?

[Vas]

Don't replace it.

Get a proper set of winter tires and swap them out.

Would let you get more miles out of the Michelin tires and be safer during the winter.

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[ELCID86]

An LSD and proper winter tires (eg Blizzaks) make this car a real snow monster.

[joeybananaz18]

Should have specified- the car came with blizzaks mounted on 17inch borbets. Got them on yesterday, just not on before the snow came.

The LSD is interesting. You always think first about their application on the track but I never thought of it making winter driving better.


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[Dathaeus]

Not until I can afford my Porsche Spyder... Especially after two people just complemented me on my 2003, ridiculous... I love it... Not sure if those people even knew what this car is capable of behind the wheel

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[Reasoned1]

A nice, low-miles 330xi—but I highly recommend having both.

[BMWCurves]

A nice, low-miles 330xi—but I highly recommend having both.

Rarer than a low mileage ZHP, IMO.

[san]

Golf R if it’s within budget. VW have 6yr/72k miles warranty from 2018 onwards which is currently the best offering from a premium (kinda) brand I think.

I don’t think you should be concerned about driving the zhp in the snow with winter tires but if you definitely want AWD then I would pick the Golf R is I were you...


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[Karl Lazlo]

Dumping my E46s and buying a Camry.

In my dream world, I would have a 996 GT2 for summer duties and a C4S as a winter beater. E46s for shuttling The Beast between sports and activities.

[slater]

An LSD and proper winter tires (eg Blizzaks) make this car a real snow monster.

agreed - although the OP stated the car must be an auto as his wife needs to be able to drive both cars.... however, if keeping the ZHP is an option, adding an LSD does indeed make the car a LOT better in the snow.

i drove audis for over 10 years, in all sorts of nasty winter weather (VT and ON), and while i think the traction was great - every other aspect sucked. ABS kicked in when your shoe got within about 5mm of the brake pedal. and they are sooo front-heavy that they understeer like mad.

now, consider the 50/50 weight distribution of the ZHP (and most 3ers), and even though you've got limited traction going forward (significantly bettered by an LSD), the overall balance of the car makes these things the best winter cars i've ever had. they are super predictable and if you have any hint of understeer, just feed in some throttle and the rear puts the car back in line. it's intuitive. and... the braking is spectacular (likely helped by the superb balance).

my $0.03.

[DeathTrap]

My wife can drive shtick, so that makes my life a LOT easier.
We don't have winter here...only short bouts of cold weather.
The next car would definitely need some cargo space, but not be an SUV/CUV.
It would have to be a jack-of-all-trades car.

The ideal choice would've been a V6, SH-AWD, 6-Speed, TSX Sport wagon because Honda fanboy, but they missed the mark on that one...
That leaves E61 or E39 touring... maybe even a S212 Estate pre-facelift of course.

[az3579]

That leaves E61 or E39 touring...

This is the route I went earlier this month. My options (while keeping it in the BMW family, because that is what I'm familiar with) were: X3 (yuck), E46 touring (unobtanium at a reasonable price [all the facelift ones that were worth getting at the time were over 5k), or a Subaru Outback sport wagon my neighbor was trying to push (needed a head gasket and cat).

The E39 ticked all of the boxes because it's got space (check), NOT an SUV (hate those things - check), automatic (in case of arm/foot injuries, or airport runs, people needing to borrow a car - check), and actually gets decent highway mileage (check). I got 29mpg on the way back from Jersey with it, and average around 24-25mpg combined city/highway driving.

Let's not forget how awesome the E39 touring looks. And it had Style 5's. And already had a spare set of E39 wheels kicking around that I wasn't able to use before ---- until now. :)

[BMWCurves]

Golf R if it’s within budget. VW have 6yr/72k miles warranty from 2018 onwards which is currently the best offering from a premium (kinda) brand I think.

I don’t think you should be concerned about driving the zhp in the snow with winter tires but if you definitely want AWD then I would pick the Golf R is I were you...


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This is how I'm selling my mother on a Golf R. She's looking to replace her Volvo S40 T5 AWD 6MT. She wants a small, four door, AWD car with a manual transmission. That combo is made by very few manufacturers today.

[Vas]

This is how I'm selling my mother on a Golf R. She's looking to replace her Volvo S40 T5 AWD 6MT. She wants a small, four door, AWD car with a manual transmission. That combo is made by very few manufacturers today.

I have also considered a 2017 Gold R. Prices needs to come down though

[san]

This is how I'm selling my mother on a Golf R. She's looking to replace her Volvo S40 T5 AWD 6MT. She wants a small, four door, AWD car with a manual transmission. That combo is made by very few manufacturers today.

Golf R would be a perfect replacement.


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[Johnmadd]

This is how I'm selling my mother on a Golf R. She's looking to replace her Volvo S40 T5 AWD 6MT. She wants a small, four door, AWD car with a manual transmission. That combo is made by very few manufacturers today.

Awesome that your mother wants a manual!

[ELCID86]

I guess I should mention (admit?) I did just by my wife a 2018 CPO Outback that she loves. Have not had it out in any nasty stuff yet, but the weather prognosticators say we should get many a chance this winter...

[Reasoned1]

Rarer than a low mileage ZHP, IMO.

Automatic 330xi’s are way more common and a lot less expensive than ZHP’s.

[san]

Automatic 330xi’s are way more common and a lot less expensive than ZHP’s.

I think he was talking about low mileage 330xi’s and not 330xi’s in general...


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[Oli77]

While I agree that an e46 with a decent set of snow tire is a must for any kind of functionality in the snow, you have to consider the fact that most ZHPmafia car are ZHPs so they are are lowered, and when it comes to ground clearance, 8 inches of snow pretty much nails us to a halt.

Given OP lives in NY, he is not going to be plowing NY streets with his ZHP this winter.

I think you should look at higher clearance cars, an XI, an X3 maybe (that is, if you want to stay true to the brand :)).

I went with an audi A6 personally. I regret it a bit. I don't want to fork over >1000$ on winter tires knowing I might sell it in the Spring. I might have a crappy winter driving in the snow.

[Vas]

While I agree that an e46 with a decent set of snow tire is a must for any kind of functionality in the snow, you have to consider the fact that most ZHPmafia car are ZHPs so they are are lowered, and when it comes to ground clearance, 8 inches of snow pretty much nails us to a halt.

Given OP lives in NY, he is not going to be plowing NY streets with his ZHP this winter.

I think you should look at higher clearance cars, an XI, an X3 maybe (that is, if you want to stay true to the brand :)).

I went with an audi A6 personally. I regret it a bit. I don't want to fork over >1000$ on winter tires knowing I might sell it in the Spring. I might have a crappy winter driving in the snow.That is true.

I got an suv but the zhp is still on a winter setup https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181120/e69d359b93b66d2976ae8720f3401628.jpg

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[BMWCurves]

I think he was talking about low mileage 330xi’s and not 330xi’s in general...


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This. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of people drove them as daily drivers, at least here in the PacNW

[joeybananaz18]

Ok I knew this was going to be a decent discussion.

Regarding my wife and stick, we really haven’t had the chance to practice together. We moved into our house and then had the baby. So spare time hasn’t exactly been on our side.

Oli I was thinking of you really when I started this thread because I saw you were starting to fall out of love with your Audi.

As much as I like the S3, the golf R makes a little more sense- basically the same car with a hatch. The hardest part would be deciding on a color tho. Have you guys seen the color palette available!?!?!?

I want to stay true to the brand but there really isn’t anything I’d want to get from bmw to replace the zhp. I simply don’t like any of it.

S60r?


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[ZHPizza]

That is true.

I got an suv but the zhp is still on a winter setup https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181120/e69d359b93b66d2976ae8720f3401628.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using TapatalkI love those things

[az3579]

Based on the location of Katonah, it's close to a major highway and isn't really upstate. He should be totally fine driving the ZHP in the snow. The closer you are to populated areas the more frequently the roads get plowed.

[Vas]

I love those things

It has been pretty great actually. I am into my second year of ownership with little repairs and basic upkeep.

I wanted a wagon for winter use but then lack of ground clearance is what made me go towards an suv.

[DeathTrap]

Legacy GT/Outback XT wagon?

Those things can boogie too. They just aren't very attractive in the face, imo.

[bimmergofast]

That is true.

I got an suv but the zhp is still on a winter setup https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181120/e69d359b93b66d2976ae8720f3401628.jpg

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I took my winter beater in another direction entirely..

34321

The first couple of winters I ran my ZHP all the way through, but there were just enough hairy situations that I decided it wasn't worth it. When snow is in the forecast it gets parked.

[ELCID86]

Great pic! Cool truck.

[Fenrir]

I plan on driving mine until the engine falls apart. Then LSX swapping and driving some more lol. But everytime the ZHP has been off the road for an extended period, a good SUV has always been my fall back.

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[Vas]

I took my winter beater in another direction entirely..

34321

The first couple of winters I ran my ZHP all the way through, but there were just enough hairy situations that I decided it wasn't worth it. When snow is in the forecast it gets parked.Happy Thanksgiving Brian.

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[bimmergofast]

Happy Thanksgiving Brian.

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To you as well!

[cakM3]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/414f783ccfdf6f4ac86b0c36879ecbc9.jpg

My Nogaro Blue B5 S4 AWD Avant replaced my ZHP.


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[RUS_ZHP]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/414f783ccfdf6f4ac86b0c36879ecbc9.jpg

My Nogaro Blue B5 S4 AWD Avant replaced my ZHP.


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This car should be unstoppable in the snow.
Looking good Charlie!


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[slater]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/414f783ccfdf6f4ac86b0c36879ecbc9.jpg

My Nogaro Blue B5 S4 AWD Avant replaced my ZHP.

nogaro.... YES!! :)

[704sw]

I have also considered a 2017 Golf R. Prices needs to come down though

Tbh VW prices in general were what turned me off to them. Pre-ZHP I was considering a lot of other cars (E36 M3, manual E39s, E9x non-M, super rare Lexus IS manuals, GTIs/Golf R...basically if it was sporty-ish and manual it was under consideration) but the only way I could build a GTI for under $30k meant compromising on speccing it out the way I'd want it. And the used market was as barren as the E46 Touring market.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181120/e69d359b93b66d2976ae8720f3401628.jpg


I LOVE QX4s and second gen. Pathfinders. To me they're the perfect size, have good utility, and the VQ35 is a great engine. Moving the Pathfinder from the Frontier to the Titan platform was a bad move IMO.


I love those things

+1

I'm not going to replace the ZHP, but if I was getting something to supplement it (for winter duty, DD, more utility, whatever), assuming it had to be new, I'd buy a 2018 Honda HR-V EX before they disappear off the lots. I don't have kids so the HRV is the perfect size for hauling doggos, making trips to Costco/Lowes/HD, can still fit my niece/nephew's carseats in a pinch, sits up high enough for me, gets obnoxious fuel economy, has #HondaReliability, and most importantly it still comes with a manual gearbox (but not in 2019).

[cakM3]

This car should be unstoppable in the snow.
Looking good Charlie!

I was thinking the same thing Serg! Especially when I get a tune on the car. :drevil


nogaro.... YES!! :)

Yes Peter! love the nogaro color of this car....

[joeybananaz18]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181123/414f783ccfdf6f4ac86b0c36879ecbc9.jpg

My Nogaro Blue B5 S4 AWD Avant replaced my ZHP.


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omg that color. part of me keeps thinking audi might be the way to go, but as someone said, they're so front heavy. In terms of beaters, anyone have any experience with a honda element?

[ELCID86]

Is it the drivetrain or the grip?

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/heres-proof-that-4wd-is-useless-on-snow-compared-to-winter-tyres/

[cakM3]

Is it the drivetrain or the grip?

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/heres-proof-that-4wd-is-useless-on-snow-compared-to-winter-tyres/

You still need a very good set of all seasons or snow tires and “common sense” when driving in snows...

Drivetrain alone is not the answer Shawn...


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[slater]

You still need a very good set of all seasons or snow tires and “common sense” when driving in snows...

Drivetrain alone is not the answer Shawn...


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I think Shawn was pointing out the argument, not necessarily that he was on one side or the other.... the video clearly states the answer though. ;)

The video also demonstrates how a ZHP with good snows is an incredibly capable snow car.


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[cakM3]

I think Shawn was pointing out the argument, not necessarily that he was on one side or the other.... the video clearly states the answer though. ;)

The video also demonstrates how a ZHP with good snows is an incredibly capable snow car.

I agree Peter. I don’t think Shawn was saying one side or another. The link Shawn provided is a great article showing importance of using good snows. I should have worded my response better.



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[NYRhockey]

That is true.

I got an suv but the zhp is still on a winter setup https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181120/e69d359b93b66d2976ae8720f3401628.jpg

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I got the Nissan version of that ('03 Pathfinder) which has been in the family since new and its dying a slow, painful death at only 125K. There is a large amount of rust in both the rear wheel wells and getting underneath the car, has a busted rear strut/shock and recently the ABS sensor went out making the 4x4 not work either (which defeats the purpose of a SUV in the winter). To fix those 2 things (strut / sensor) i'm looking at close to $1,500 on a car that is worth not much more than that with them fixed. Even with those 2 issues addressed i'm concerned the tranny can go at any time despite having the fluid changed at about 90K. Over the past couple months on 2 occasions on the way home from work it suddenly lost power and no matter how hard i pressed the gas pedal it could barely accelerate and on an incline could not maintain speed. I take back roads home so i was able to pull over safely then turn off the car and back on and that fixed it both times.

[NYRhockey]

I'd have a hard time parting with the ZHP so i'd just get a 2nd car. With my beater with a heater possibly on its last legs (as described above) i've been looking at newer awd options, both sedan and suv, that would serve was winter warrior and family hauler but be fun to drive. When looking at sedans i considered cars like the Giulia, A3/S3, A4/S4, S60, Jag XE but then realized that despite being awd they'd still be a bit redundant with the zhp in that as a sedan would not have much ground clearance for bigger storms. Plus, if i was going to get a sedan i'd want it to be 6MT and that of those choices only the A4/S4 offered it. So off to SUV world i went and settled on a 2015.5-2016 XC60 R-Design as my target purchase. It'd look good, be a boss in the snow and 2015.5-2016 would come with the Polestar tune bringing it up to 354lb torque and paddle shifters, making it a fun ride home. As my search began (can get 2015.5 under $30K) the wife brought up the idea that she wants a bigger house in the next 2-3yrs, bringing my plans to execute a purchase to a screeching halt until further conversations occur.

[DeathTrap]

There's the X5d too. Completely forgot about that. You can get into a 2011 for less than 10k, spend a few grand more and have a monster at acceleration, fuel efficiency, towing, etc. And it's still technically a "beater"

[KevinC]

I sold my ZHP in April after 6 great years with it. It had become kinda redundant with my Golf R being the preferred daily. First time my garage had no BMW since 2005. I even let my BMWCCA membership lapse. The itch for another M car was strong. A few weeks ago I decided I was going to find another Z4M Coupe. I sold mine in 2015 and have regretted it ever since. I got VERY lucky and found the "right" car within days - a 34k-mile 2008 in Space Gray, a very rare color (66 produced worldwide, 48 for NA, 2008-only color). Flew to NJ to see, drive & seal the deal and and had her trucked home. SO excited to have another S54 in the garage again.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SMXjg2F/0/X2/i-SMXjg2F-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jJNnq5T/0/XL/i-jJNnq5T-XL.jpg

[RUS_ZHP]

I sold my ZHP in April after 6 great years with it. It had become kinda redundant with my Golf R being the preferred daily. First time my garage had no BMW since 2005. I even let my BMWCCA membership lapse. The itch for another M car was strong. A few weeks ago I decided I was going to find another Z4M Coupe. I sold mine in 2015 and have regretted it ever since. I got VERY lucky and found the "right" car within days - a 34k-mile 2008 in Space Gray, a very rare color (66 produced worldwide, 48 for NA, 2008-only color). Flew to NJ to see, drive & seal the deal and and had her trucked home. SO excited to have another S54 in the garage again.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SMXjg2F/0/X2/i-SMXjg2F-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jJNnq5T/0/XL/i-jJNnq5T-XL.jpg

You have a great garage with great daily and perfect weekend car. Z4 looks so good with space grey color.


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[ZHPizza]

I sold my ZHP in April after 6 great years with it. It had become kinda redundant with my Golf R being the preferred daily. First time my garage had no BMW since 2005. I even let my BMWCCA membership lapse. The itch for another M car was strong. A few weeks ago I decided I was going to find another Z4M Coupe. I sold mine in 2015 and have regretted it ever since. I got VERY lucky and found the "right" car within days - a 34k-mile 2008 in Space Gray, a very rare color (66 produced worldwide, 48 for NA, 2008-only color). Flew to NJ to see, drive & seal the deal and and had her trucked home. SO excited to have another S54 in the garage again.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SMXjg2F/0/X2/i-SMXjg2F-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jJNnq5T/0/XL/i-jJNnq5T-XL.jpg

Damn that space gray looks good. What did they call the Z4 coupe? Clown shoe II?

[Vas]

I got the Nissan version of that ('03 Pathfinder) which has been in the family since new and its dying a slow, painful death at only 125K. There is a large amount of rust in both the rear wheel wells and getting underneath the car, has a busted rear strut/shock and recently the ABS sensor went out making the 4x4 not work either (which defeats the purpose of a SUV in the winter). To fix those 2 things (strut / sensor) i'm looking at close to $1,500 on a car that is worth not much more than that with them fixed. Even with those 2 issues addressed i'm concerned the tranny can go at any time despite having the fluid changed at about 90K. Over the past couple months on 2 occasions on the way home from work it suddenly lost power and no matter how hard i pressed the gas pedal it could barely accelerate and on an incline could not maintain speed. I take back roads home so i was able to pull over safely then turn off the car and back on and that fixed it both times.

Sorry to hear about your luck.

I am at 171k and it has been pretty great.

Btw that cost for repairs sounds high.

I just did the both of the rear shocks and they were $60 each.

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[KevinC]

Damn that space gray looks good. What did they call the Z4 coupe? Clown shoe II?

I agree - space gray (or the more common silver gray, which looks almost identical) wasn't a particular desire when I went searching, but now that I have it - man it really does a great job showing off the lines of the car, and should be easy to maintain, and not jump out at the heat like some colors can.

The official name for this car is "M Coupé". No Z4. Even the state of Arizona, on the title, simply calls it "M".

[dpark]

I am an original owner of a ZHP and have winter tires mounted on a square 17” setup. Car is very stable in winter but it doesn’t even hold a candle to my wife’s Subaru Outback.

If my ZHP bit the dust at this point I wouldn’t replace it same-for-same. Would pick up an awd Tesla 3 and a Mazda Miata 3rd gen used.


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[3LiterStraightSix]

I sold my ZHP in April after 6 great years with it. It had become kinda redundant with my Golf R being the preferred daily. First time my garage had no BMW since 2005. I even let my BMWCCA membership lapse. The itch for another M car was strong. A few weeks ago I decided I was going to find another Z4M Coupe. I sold mine in 2015 and have regretted it ever since. I got VERY lucky and found the "right" car within days - a 34k-mile 2008 in Space Gray, a very rare color (66 produced worldwide, 48 for NA, 2008-only color). Flew to NJ to see, drive & seal the deal and and had her trucked home. SO excited to have another S54 in the garage again.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SMXjg2F/0/X2/i-SMXjg2F-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jJNnq5T/0/XL/i-jJNnq5T-XL.jpgSex on wheels.

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[Fried_Chicken]

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?22007-You-will-pry-my-ZHP-from-my-cold-dead-hands

[ELCID86]

I agree Peter. I don’t think Shawn was saying one side or another. The link Shawn provided is a great article showing importance of using good snows. I should have worded my response better.



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Yes Peter and Charlie. I thought it was a good article. I think good set of winter tires and RWD can hold their own with AWD/4x4 in some (most?) situations.

[NYRhockey]

I got the Nissan version of that ('03 Pathfinder) which has been in the family since new and its dying a slow, painful death at only 125K. There is a large amount of rust in both the rear wheel wells and getting underneath the car, has a busted rear strut/shock and recently the ABS sensor went out making the 4x4 not work either (which defeats the purpose of a SUV in the winter). To fix those 2 things (strut / sensor) i'm looking at close to $1,500 on a car that is worth not much more than that with them fixed. Even with those 2 issues addressed i'm concerned the tranny can go at any time despite having the fluid changed at about 90K. Over the past couple months on 2 occasions on the way home from work it suddenly lost power and no matter how hard i pressed the gas pedal it could barely accelerate and on an incline could not maintain speed. I take back roads home so i was able to pull over safely then turn off the car and back on and that fixed it both times.

The rust bucket lives! Took it to the shop for the busted shocks and abs sensor and luckily only 1 sensor needed replacement. Came to $600 otd so i must have misunderstood the original estimate of $1500. At this lower cost i can live with holding onto it and see how many more miles i can squeeze out of it.


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[joeybananaz18]

The rust bucket lives! Took it to the shop for the busted shocks and abs sensor and luckily only 1 sensor needed replacement. Came to $600 otd so i must have misunderstood the original estimate of $1500. At this lower cost i can live with holding onto it and see how many more miles i can squeeze out of it.


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Sweet. $900 back in the pocket


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[joeybananaz18]

hey what do you guys think of the Kia Stinger? I was at the mall today and they had a stinger boutique set up a la tesla dedicated to the stinger. They had a GT2 with all the bells and whistles in red. let me tell you, under the lights that car is a stunner.

[az3579]

hey what do you guys think of the Kia Stinger? I was at the mall today and they had a stinger boutique set up a la tesla dedicated to the stinger. They had a GT2 with all the bells and whistles in red. let me tell you, under the lights that car is a stunner.

Agreed. Love the styling of it, has great power, and is cheaper than its BMW competition, by a fair bit. The interior actually has really nice touches.

[joeybananaz18]

Agreed. Love the styling of it, has great power, and is cheaper than its BMW competition, by a fair bit. The interior actually has really nice touches.

I'm sure a lot of car people are aware that 2018 was a year for sedans as crossovers and SUVs become more popular. i was reading last night despite this, the stinger actually sold surprisingly well. Kia has also had a couple of really good looking wagon concepts in the past. if they can maintain similar sales for a while it may help spawn a wagon and I'm totally there. Another article cited a kia australia executive that they are also considering a 5.0 V8 for certain markets- US included.

[az3579]

I'm sure a lot of car people are aware that 2018 was a year for sedans as crossovers and SUVs become more popular. i was reading last night despite this, the stinger actually sold surprisingly well. Kia has also had a couple of really good looking wagon concepts in the past. if they can maintain similar sales for a while it may help spawn a wagon and I'm totally there. Another article cited a kia australia executive that they are also considering a 5.0 V8 for certain markets- US included.

Along the wagon line, I read one article that claimed wagon sales are up. I really hope so, because I would hate to be phased out of choices because everyone else wants an SUV.

I found this part of the article very interesting:


Premium brands continue to offer wagons as their wealthier clientele prefers them to large SUVs. Porsche has the Panamera Sport Turismo, Volvo has the V90 and V60, and Jaguar has the XF Sportbrake. All of these are more attractive and offer more utility than their sedan counterparts.

According to sources at Mercedes-Benz, its most affluent customers opt for the E-class Estate. And they pay in cash.

Of course, it is a Jalopnik article, so take it with a grain of salt. :rofl
https://jalopnik.com/strong-growth-in-wagon-sales-may-be-the-opening-salvo-i-1831561302

[cakM3]

Yes Peter and Charlie. I thought it was a good article. I think good set of winter tires and RWD can hold their own with AWD/4x4 in some (most?) situations.

I have to agree Shawn :thumbsup Almost every winter I will see some kind of 4x4 in the ditch because they were going way too fast for the conditions and I get by easily with my ZHP... if you have a good set of snow tires and common sense you should not have any difficulty driving in the snows... this year will be my first year having a car with AWD... should be interesting ;)

[joeybananaz18]

Along the wagon line, I read one article that claimed wagon sales are up. I really hope so, because I would hate to be phased out of choices because everyone else wants an SUV.

I found this part of the article very interesting:

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Of course, it is a Jalopnik article, so take it with a grain of salt. :rofl
https://jalopnik.com/strong-growth-in-wagon-sales-may-be-the-opening-salvo-i-1831561302



i see about 4-5 E-class wagons parked at the train station every morning. Don't tell me people don't want wagons- how has Merc been able to offer a upscale wagon since the 80s (and now offer one with over 600 hp) and never feel the need to axe it?

Jalopnik actually quoted Bloomberg, and this is my favorite line from that article:

“As long as you deliver on the styling, I think there will always be an opportunity for wagons,” Russell said. “It’s something different for consumers who are different.”

This is what i alway think whenever i see a E-class wagon. To (enter car maker that doesn't want to offer a wagon in the states for fear of it being a waste of money), if you think wagons don't sell you probably don't know how to design one.

Now that article has me thinking a little more. I was reading a few stinger articles yesterday and I saw a number of them making the point that the stinger may just have been designed as a flagship to be just a way to get people into dealerships to buy other Kias. Youtube vids made the point of it being a great alternative to those that don't want to be seen in the status quo german sedan. If people are buying wagons to now go with the status quo SUV, it would only make sense a wagon is in the cards, right? <----extreme optimism.

[NYRhockey]

Stingers look nice but Kia needs a re-brand...PRONTO. That bottom of cheerios box logo does not belong on a Stinger. Hyundai came up with the Genesis brand for its upscale cars and Kia should do the same for the Stinger and future "nicer" cars. Just did a quick check on their site and they have a SUV called Telluride in 2020 and looks the bomb.

[joeybananaz18]

I think that one came out today in Detroit. Looks great- like it more than bmws new oversized grills.


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[Fenrir]

I really like the AWD V6 Stinger after getting a chance to tool one around. I didn't want to like it but... I did.

Also, hafta revise my original post. If I had to pick one car to replace the ZHP. And this is if I have zero reasonable way to maintain the ZHP and have a gun to my head..... I'd have a Cayman GT4. So pretty and soooo fun. Till then, the ZHP hits all of the fun daily buttons for me.

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[Silbergrauwler]

The ideal choice would've been a V6, SH-AWD, 6-Speed, TSX Sport wagon because Honda fanboy, but they missed the mark on that one...
That leaves E61 or E39 touring... maybe even a S212 Estate pre-facelift of course.

My wife's daily and our general family car is an E61 535xi. We truly love it and with snow tires on it it is very safe and competent in winter. Bikes, snowboards, you name it. Two weeks ago we had the snow tires swapped out, and I left Costco with 4x 245 tires and a full costco run of groceries in back, two kids in car seats, my wife and I. No problem.

The only drawback is N54 maintenance, but 2.5 years and 40k miles it hasn't been terrible. A MHD tune and the sport auto trans flash and it is no slouch either. Can't say enough good things about it. We will keep it for a long time and probably only replace it with a newer Merc wagon.

[az3579]

All I can say is that I hope this SUV trend dies, quick. I'm getting pretty tired of not being able to see around or through these monstrous behemoths. There's way too many of them on the road.

[slater]

My wife's daily and our general family car is an E61 535xi. We truly love it and with snow tires on it it is very safe and competent in winter. Bikes, snowboards, you name it. Two weeks ago we had the snow tires swapped out, and I left Costco with 4x 245 tires and a full costco run of groceries in back, two kids in car seats, my wife and I. No problem.

The only drawback is N54 maintenance, but 2.5 years and 40k miles it hasn't been terrible. A MHD tune and the sport auto trans flash and it is no slouch either. Can't say enough good things about it. We will keep it for a long time and probably only replace it with a newer Merc wagon.

this is good stuff. i am thinking about selling the X3 and getting another Touring (for my wife), and saw an E61 535xi that looks great - also an auto trans, so yes, MHD tune and the xHD trans tune sounds like the right choice. hmmmm.