Better Performance Mod: Dual Vanos or Conforti Shark Injector? Or other?

[tomjonesrocks]

Have been reading with interest those of you that have done the Shark Injector (though buying the battery just to do the install is a bit of a bummer) -- but a BMW Master Mechanic that lives in my neighborhood is strongly selling me on the Dr. Vanos (Dual Vanos) modification.

Any opinions which would be the most dramatic/best bang-for-buck modification if I was going to do one? Or should I be considering something else instead?

Opinions appreciated!

[Hermes]

i dont think that vanos rebuild would really get you more performance like sharking would do, I think thats what you were asking about. Either Dr Vanos or Beisan Systems should be done anyways at some point just to restore the power that you will lose when those seals eventually go bad.

[zj96sc]

The only way you'd feel any serious gains from the VANOS kit is if your seals are in extremely bad shape. Fixing that will restore cam control and some low end torque.

I think you should avoid performance mods until the engine is healthy, and least this is how I've always tried to operate. If you've got substantial vanos rattle or inconsistent power delivery from 2-4k, I'd focus on a VANOS kit first. With these engines its never a bad idea anyway. Then, by all means, shark away!

[jreyes19]

^ like everyone here is saying you don't get a real gain by doing he vanos, but you do get a better engine feel

I hear only good things about sharking the car :)
also both will cost about the same price, dr vanos (-core charge) and conforti shark injector

Good luck in your decision and IMO they both only better your vehicle, so I would just do both but in the order of Vanos first then Shark, to get the most power and health out of your engine :)

[danewilson77]

IMHO, I would do the maintenance, prior to the mod.

[kayger12]

IMHO, I would do the maintenance, prior to the mod.

This.

[UdubBadger]

what kind of numbers do you guys see out of the shark?

[johnrando]

This.

This this.

[mikeyb74]

IMHO, I would do the maintenance, prior to the mod.

I agree

[nike001]

Spend the money on the Vanos kit. It is not a modification. They are only seals($60) that replace your old and maybe worn ones, and the rattle kit($60) which stops your weird rattle you get between 2500-3000rpms

Also, get the rattle kit & seals from beisansystems.com other than the Dr. Vanos ones.

[Hermes]

what kind of numbers do you guys see out of the shark?

supposedly (from bimmerzone - http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Performance_Shark_Injector_E46/SHK-E46.html):

2001-2005 E46 330i (M54 engine) Performance Software Peak Gains
HP Gain + 4 @ 6100 RPM
Torque Gain + 7 @ 3400 RPM
New Rev Limit 7000 RPM


Manual Only

[kayger12]

Also, get the rattle kit & seals from beisansystems.com other than the Dr. Vanos ones.

Is there a reason here, or just personal preference?

[az3579]

Is there a reason here, or just personal preference?

The reason is price. Much cheaper, last time I checked...

[kayger12]

The reason is price. Much cheaper, last time I checked...

Not if you factor in the vice, soft jaw liners, and impact wrench if you don't own them.

[az3579]

Not if you factor in the vice, soft jaw liners, and impact wrench if you don't own them.

Someone that's creative could make it work without that stuff. Ask me how I know. :)

[kayger12]

Not interested in doing it without the recommended tools.

Was interested in why Nike preferred Beisan, which is why I asked him.

[nike001]

Is there a reason here, or just personal preference?

Apparently Dr. Vanos started out by using the seals from Beisan.. but later on switched to OEM BMW seals(which are the ones that fail)
Beisan has their own seals that are supposed to never deteriorate, like the BMW ones.

[kayger12]

Apparently Dr. Vanos started out by using the seals from Beisan.. but later on switched to OEM BMW seals(which are the ones that fail)
Beisan has their own seals that are supposed to never deteriorate, like the BMW ones.

Dayum-- never knew that Dr V went to OEM seals. That's ridiculous. Wonder if Beisan shut them out due to the competition.

I used the Beisan seals on my 325 and was very satisfied, but was tempted by the ease of the Dr Vanos now that I have to do the anti-rattle to boot.

Beisan it is, then.

Great info-- thanks.

[UdubBadger]

supposedly (from bimmerzone - http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Performance_Shark_Injector_E46/SHK-E46.html):

2001-2005 E46 330i (M54 engine) Performance Software Peak Gains
HP Gain + 4 @ 6100 RPM
Torque Gain + 7 @ 3400 RPM
New Rev Limit 7000 RPM


Manual Only

wow thats really not much is it?

I've seen 11hp/11tq peak gains on the ZHP models

[Hermes]

could be also new oil/plugs/air filter. prob did all around the same time then dyno'd their car.

[az3579]

Not interested in doing it without the recommended tools.

Was interested in why Nike preferred Beisan, which is why I asked him.

Umm, ok... you didn't specify his name. Nevermind then...


wow thats really not much is it?

I've seen 11hp/11tq peak gains on the ZHP models

Dunno, I've seen data that directly contradicts any significant gains. Software never really provides much power in my experience (for a naturally aspirated car). Do you know where the dynos are that show 11hp? Perhaps the ones you've seen had other mods as well? I wonder why there's a discrepancy.

[UdubBadger]

no the gains are bhp directly from software only.

I don't have any dyno info, maybe I'll go log a few runs of it on a dyno if I finally pick up a ZHP soon.

[Hermes]

actually I was wrong, just found the page on TMS, what I said earlier is for a regular 330
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-269-e46-325330-conforti-shark-injector-performance-software.aspx

2004-2006 E46 330i ZHP (M54 engine) Performance Software Peak Gains
HP Gain + 14 @ 6400 RPM
Torque Gain + 11 @ 4100 RPM
New Rev Limit 7000 RPM

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/dyno/ZHP.pdf

[UdubBadger]

ok thats what I figured it might have been a regular 330

[zj96sc]

Apparently Dr. Vanos started out by using the seals from Beisan.. but later on switched to OEM BMW seals(which are the ones that fail)
Beisan has their own seals that are supposed to never deteriorate, like the BMW ones.

Do you have documented proof of this from Dr. Vanos or a customer that has done an analysis on the rubber from a disassembled Dr. Vanos unit? This is a pretty strong accusation (considering it implies that Dr. Vanos is flat out lying on their website) and should probably be avoided for the sake of technical integrity of this forum if it is only hearsay.

from dr. vanos website:


Each dual vanos is fully rebuilt using custom machine work along with specially designed Viton O-rings and Teflon seals

from beisan website:


The Buna O-rings can be replaced with O-rings made from Viton. Viton (FKM, Fluorocarbon) has similar functional characteristics to Buna, but has much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics.

Not attacking here at all....just trying to ensure that we collect the most accurate information possible at all times.

[danewilson77]

All I know...is if you do the maintenance yourself....you will be positive viton is used.

I like the probing questions. They are fine. I would also like confirmation on this.

[GT172I]

A reply from DrVanos snagged from another thread (http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?4788-ATL-ZHP-v2.0-A-Silbergrau-Owner-s-Chronicle&p=111407#post111407) asking why choose his product over Beisan:


Thank you for your interest in DrVanos! To answer your questions we are basically just doing all the work for you, but the end results are going to be about the same as if you use a DIY kit. Of course we do fully disassemble the vanos, clean everything and bead blast the housing to provide a like-new product to our customers. We then bench test the vanos once it's rebuilt to ensure it's working properly, and offer a 1 year warranty. We also provide the mounting gasket and crush washers in the kit.

Mechanically the end result will be the same either way, you are just not having to worry about doing any damage to the vanos while rebuilding it yourself. We do see the occasional broken piston or stripped bolt from the DIY customers from being careless or accidentally dropping and breaking a part. Unfortunately BMW does not sell spare parts on these vanos units, so if you do damage something internally you'll likely need to buy another vanos to salvage the parts from.

Let me know if you have any other questions,
Chris Gant

Doesn't mention using OEM parts over aftermarket, which you'd think would normally be a notable point to most people.

[kayger12]

All I know...is if you do the maintenance yourself....you will be positive viton is used.


Yes, sirree-- that's what I'm thinking.

[GT172I]

Playing devils advocate here but...


All I know...is if you do the maintenance yourself....you will be positive viton is used.

That seems to be the main selling point for DrVanos, you don't have to do all the intricate maintenance parts yourself

[drfreeman]

I did the vanos kits and the car did feel better with more pull. This is because the old one was bad and the car was rattle and lossing power. My car is just in normal condition. Highly recommended to do the vanos kit first then think about the chip mod.

[danewilson77]

Thanks for the input dr.! Glad to see you posting around.

[Hornung418]

My take:

Unless you absolutely cannot find the 4 hours to DIY it, don't have the means to DIY it or find the convenience factor highly appealing, The Beisan kit is all the further you need to look.

Seals then Shark.

[danewilson77]

My take:

Unless you absolutely cannot find the 4 hours to DIY it, don't have the means to DIY it or find the convenience factor highly appealing, The Beisan kit is all the further you need to look.

Seals then Shark.

.....then drop...then intake...then exhaust....then rims.

[Hornung418]

Only two options in this thread, Dane :P

[Hermes]

We forgot underdrive pulleys, reinforcement plates, limiters, fcab/rtab, sway bars...

[kaboom]

I'm going to be doing both, most likely, and I'll dyno before and after. If anyone in socal wants to come do the vanos at the same time with me on a weekend, let me know. I more than have all the tools necessary (including a dyno).

Ian

[webster]

I'm going to be doing both, most likely, and I'll dyno before and after. If anyone in socal wants to come do the vanos at the same time with me on a weekend, let me know. I more than have all the tools necessary (including a dyno).

Ian

hell of an offer, if i were local i would be there!

[johnrando]

I'm going to be doing both, most likely, and I'll dyno before and after. If anyone in socal wants to come do the vanos at the same time with me on a weekend, let me know. I more than have all the tools necessary (including a dyno).

Ian

Where in SoCal? I might take you up on that offer. PM me. I'll need to order the Besian, etc.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

John, Ian, I believe, is in the OC. Not that far from you.

[kaboom]

Yeah, north of OC, 57 and 10. If it can be done in a day (I've never done it) we can have a little party and play with our cars. Even dyno them if we have time. The valve cover gasket job is easy, I've already done that but if you haven't, do it at the same time. Main thing is I get my MTB ride in on the weekend or I'm grumpy haha.

Ian

[nike001]

I have no documented proof, but it is known that Dr. Vanos at least STARTED out using Beisan seals.

My take:

Unless you absolutely cannot find the 4 hours to DIY it, don't have the means to DIY it or find the convenience factor highly appealing, The Beisan kit is all the further you need to look.

Seals then Shark.


.....then drop...then intake...then exhaust....then rims.

I must be doing it wrong then. So far I've done seals, then intake, and next is drop :|

[danewilson77]

I have no documented proof, but it is known that Dr. Vanos at least STARTED out using Beisan seals.




I must be doing it wrong then. So far I've done seals, then intake, and next is drop :|

Any iteration of the above is Family accepted.

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