urgent! how to get belts off?

[webster]

hey guys! im trying to get the pulleys done on my car today. i'm right to the end, got the fan out and the pulleys loose. just can't seem to figure out how to get the belts off. urgent advice needed! google found me nothing...the rogue instructions suck!!

here's what i'm looking at. i want to get this done asap!!

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1870/20111218171248.jpg

[ryankokesh]

Put a torx in the middle of the tensioner pully...it'll move the whole pulley when you turn it. Good luck!


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[webster]

which one is the tensioner pulley? what size torx? you mean a torx driver? there's not enough space between the radiator and the pulleys to fit a screwdriver. i'm so confused. more details needed. thanks for your input.

[Hornung418]

It's a T47 crank it to the right as if you were tightening it down. That will pull the tensioner to the left then slide the belt off the top of the pulley.

[Hornung418]

Actually it could be a hex key as well. Check and make sure which it is.

[webster]

i lost daylight :( i did 80% of the work and had to put everything back. will try again on tuesday. pretty damn frustrated.

on the plus side i was able to change my PS fluid and clean the MAF sensor.

[webster]

It's a T47 crank it to the right as if you were tightening it down. That will pull the tensioner to the left then slide the belt off the top of the pulley.

i did try sticking a hex key in the middle pulley thingy (i guess that's the tensioner?) but i couldn't get it to budge. used all my force to try to turn it both directions and it wouldn't move. what's the trick?

[az3579]

what size torx? you mean a torx driver?

You don't have to use a torx screwdriver. In fact, a torx socket and socket wrench is all you can fit in there.


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[webster]

i dont have a torx socket or wrench lol

the instructions did not say anything about needing them...

i know i'm starting to sound pretty stupid, but i need you guys to really spell this out for me. i've never worked on the engine of a car before.

so you take a hex key or torx socket and turn it to the RIGHT? that reduces tension on the whole belt system?

[Hornung418]

Also...It should be noted that you need to loosen the four 10mm bolts on the Water Pump Pulley and the three 13mm bolts on the Power Steering Pump Pulley before removing the belt.

As an extra word of caution, if you for some reason need to remove the Alternator you will have to remove the Power Steering Pump Pulley to gain access to the inner-most bolt on the bottom of the Alternator.

[Hornung418]

i dont have a torx socket or wrench lol

the instructions did not say anything about needing them...
You need to have them when working on these cars. They are much less likely to strip the head. Head to Sears or Lowe's and get a nice set of Torx bits with a half inch adapter.

[webster]

Also...It should be noted that you need to loosen the four 10mm bolts on the Water Pump Pulley and the three 13mm bolts on the Power Steering Pump Pulley before removing the belt.

As an extra word of caution, if you for some reason need to remove the Alternator you will have to remove the Power Steering Pump Pulley to gain access to the inner-most bolt on the bottom of the Alternator.

yeah i did loosen the bolts on the pulleys first, i am using these directions:

http://www.rogueengineering.com/pdf/re_e46_power_pulleys.pdf

everything was super super easy until i got to the step without pictures lol.

im not worried about the alternator...

[Hornung418]

You've done your Oil Filter Housing Gasket? I'm just throwing it out there that there is an extra step with these pulleys installed when removing the alternator.

[webster]

i don't know what you're talking about lol. i'm asking how to get the belts off and you're bringing up alternators and oil filter housing gaskets hahaha


ok now i'm gonna go to home depot and look for a torx set.

[danewilson77]

It's a T47 crank it to the right as if you were tightening it down. That will pull the tensioner to the left then slide the belt off the top of the pulley.

Not a T47.

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[Newjack]

Also...It should be noted that you need to loosen the four 10mm bolts on the Water Pump Pulley and the three 13mm bolts on the Power Steering Pump Pulley before removing the belt.

As an extra word of caution, if you for some reason need to remove the Alternator you will have to remove the Power Steering Pump Pulley to gain access to the inner-most bolt on the bottom of the Alternator.

Wait what? Is this because he had RE pulleys? I missed something.

[danewilson77]

Wait what? Is this because he had RE pulleys? I missed something.

New by me. Something is up.

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[Hornung418]

I'm confused that y'all are confused. How do you break a bolt loose if there is nothing to hold the pulley in place? Take off your belt and try to remove the pulley without it.

The Alternator was brought up because the Power Steering Pump Pulley is now larger than stock, thus interfering with removal of alternator, should you ever need to do so. Just a heads up, no need to be confused, just future advice. Please recall that I have these pulleys, I believe I even suggested them to you, and when replacing my failed OFHG, I ran into the aforementioned snag and had to back track quite a bit to remove the pulley and complete the job.

[Hornung418]

Not a T47.

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Which is it? I thought that's what I grabbed today when I did this job at 2 pm...

[danewilson77]

Which is it? I thought that's what I grabbed today when I did this job at 2 pm...

Idk... But I don't have a 47.

Probably a 45.

Bentley says 8mm hex for mechanical.

T60 for AC tensioner.

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[kayger12]

I believe the serp belt is a T-50.

Web, you'll need a decent size socket wrench (no lil 1/4 or short handled 3/8 jobbers) to get the leverage you need to move the tensioner. Just keep steadily applying force in a clockwise direction until it starts to move.

Also, make sure the torx socket is seated all the way in the bolt head so you don't strip it.

[danewilson77]

I believe the serp belt is a T-50.

I can buy that. It's weird that Bentley doesn't say.

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[kayger12]

Just re-reading Webs post--

Yes, apply clockwise pressure on the tensioner and it will move, decreasing the tension on the belt so you can get it off.

What Horney was suggesting was to loosen the bolts on the water pump pulley before you take the belt off so that there is some resistance on the pulley while you apply force to loosen the bolts.

You'll need a different socket for the AC tensioner. For some reason I'm thinking that one is a hex-head-- maybe an 8mm? Anybody?

[webster]

thanks fellas. just picked up a torx and hex socket set. will be re-attempting the pulleys on tues.

[kayger12]

Call me if you hit a wall, we'll get you through.

PMd you my cell.

[webster]

wow, thanks for the offer. always impressed with the level of courtesy here :)

[3ZHPGUY]

Take a look at my water pump DIY, from the description and if I remember right. The Idler pulley is the lower pulley on the right side of the picture drivers side of the engine. Scroll down to picture 12 were you will see me taking the covers of the pulleys, the idler pulley is the lower one of two that I removed the cover from.

Hope this helps.

http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?524-BMW-E46-Water-Pump-Failure-Diagnosis-and-Replacement

[Johnmadd]

Also, make sure the torx socket is seated all the way in the bolt head so you don't strip it.

+1. Make sure after you think its good to try and get it in a little more, and don't be afraid to torque all your force down on it because you wont brake it.

[kayger12]

wow, thanks for the offer. always impressed with the level of courtesy here :)

Anytime.

Droid X. Tapatalk. Use it.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

wow, thanks for the offer. always impressed with the level of courtesy here :)

That's what we do here.

[das boots]

Here are the two places where you put your torx socket and allen head to loosen the belts.. Hope this helps.

[Newjack]

I'm confused that y'all are confused. How do you break a bolt loose if there is nothing to hold the pulley in place? Take off your belt and try to remove the pulley without it.

The Alternator was brought up because the Power Steering Pump Pulley is now larger than stock, thus interfering with removal of alternator, should you ever need to do so. Just a heads up, no need to be confused, just future advice. Please recall that I have these pulleys, I believe I even suggested them to you, and when replacing my failed OFHG, I ran into the aforementioned snag and had to back track quite a bit to remove the pulley and complete the job.

Sorry I read OP's post wrong. All I saw was "I need to get my belts off". But what he was saying was "I'm changing my pulleys, but can't get my belts off to change the pulleys."

So I'm thinking why does he need to take a pulley off if he's just doing belts?

My brain is fried right now. Just finished writing too much for my finals. My mistake.


Was it in fact a T-50 for the serp belt?

[LivesNearCostco]

My understanding is the tensioner pulley bolt can be either a T-55 or 8mm hex, depending on the car. When I stripped mine and ordered a replacement based on the RealOEM part#, the new bolt used a T-55 (or was it T50?) torx. Even though the A/C tensioner arm takes a T-60 torx, I didn't have one until recently so I would pop off the plastic cap from the pulley and used the same torx socket that fit the tensioner pulley (I'm pretty sure it was a T-55) to crank the A/C tensioner too.

Edit: I wonder if my original tensioner bolt was an 8mm hex and it stripped because I was using a T-55 torx in it? Hmmmm.... In fact Lawrence, looking at your mega-size pix, you've got a torx bit in there but the bolt head looks hex to me.

[danewilson77]

Here are the two places where you put your torx socket and allen head to loosen the belts.. Hope this helps.

No... He's using what he should be using.

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[webster]

pulleys are done! replaced the serp belt as well. for the record, it was a T-50 torx bit that did the trick. on both tensioners.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wtolson/ZHP%20Pics/2011-12-20151226.jpg

comparison of stock v. rogue size

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wtolson/ZHP%20Pics/2011-12-20145051.jpg

thanks to everyone for the help and advice. bout to take her for a spin!

[imola red zhp]

pulleys are done! replaced the serp belt as well. for the record, it was a T-50 torx bit that did the trick. on both tensioners.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wtolson/ZHP%20Pics/2011-12-20151226.jpg

comparison of stock v. rogue size

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wtolson/ZHP%20Pics/2011-12-20145051.jpg

thanks to everyone for the help and advice. bout to take her for a spin!

CAn't wait for the results of your test drive

[webster]

it is rush hour now so i couldn't get too frisky, but i can already tell that i freaking love the new pulleys. the car pulls noticeably quicker out of 1st and 2nd in the 15-2500 rpm range. race mode on the SB + new pulleys = quick ZHP :)

[danewilson77]

pulleys are done! replaced the serp belt as well. for the record, it was a T-50 torx bit that did the trick. on both tensioners.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wtolson/ZHP%20Pics/2011-12-20151226.jpg

comparison of stock v. rogue size

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k433/wtolson/ZHP%20Pics/2011-12-20145051.jpg

thanks to everyone for the help and advice. bout to take her for a spin!

Thats nuts. My ac and serp tensioner bolts are different size.

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[aurelius]

Thats nuts. My ac and serp tensioner bolts are different size.

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Mine, too. T50 on the ac compressor belt and 8mm hex on the serpentine belt tensioner.

[danewilson77]

I used a T60 on the AC pulley and a T50 on the Serp pulley.

I recieved the new bolt tonight, that I ordered via realoem drawings...through ECS.

I will check size when I get home.

It's a Torx though....fo sho.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6545690671_061f918f77_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dw77zhpmafia/6545690671/)
E46 Serp Tensioner Bolt (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dw77zhpmafia/6545690671/) by Dane Wilson77 (http://www.flickr.com/people/dw77zhpmafia/), on Flickr

[webster]

Well the t-50 worked on both, I swear!

[danewilson77]

Weird....

I'm taking pics when I get back under there....hehe

[Hornung418]

Congrats on the install!

2844

PSA For ZHP Mafia Members: Here's something I noticed that 330 owners should probably keep tabs on. Circled above is the Crank Pulley. The rubber lining in the Harmonic Damper seems to be coming out. Nothing to be concerned with yet, but take a look at it every now and then when you are changing your oil or cleaning your air filter. If this fails you can see issues with the Oil Pump and all that Jazz.

[kayger12]

Mine, too. T50 on the ac compressor belt and 8mm hex on the serpentine belt tensioner.

This is what mine are as well.

[danewilson77]

If it comes out.....what do you do...?

Thanks for the info.

[Hornung418]

If it comes out.....what do you do...?

Thanks for the info.
Just means it has failed and you either need to get it replaced with OEM, or if you are going to be revving the nuts off it, get an ATI Super Damper.

[LivesNearCostco]

My new serp tensioner bolt looks exactly like that. I don't know if the original one was the torx or the 8mm hex, which is probably how I stripped it. On my A/C tensioner, if I put the socket bit into the tensioner arm--as in the photo posted by das boots, it's a T60. If I pop off the pulley dust cap and crank the pulley bolt, then same T50 as the serp tensioner pulley bolt, which is what I assume Webster did.

I used a T60 on the AC pulley and a T50 on the Serp pulley.

I recieved the new bolt tonight, that I ordered via realoem drawings...through ECS.

I will check size when I get home.

It's a Torx though....fo sho.

Dane Wilson77[/url], on Flickr

[johnrando]

Great news Webster. Glad to hear it worked out and you like the results. Good for you doing a DIY with never working on the car before.

[webster]

thanks!

[das boots]

This is facinating. Some cars got both torx. And some are combination fo torx and hex.....

[danewilson77]

This is facinating. Some cars got both torx. And some are combination fo torx and hex.....

Yup... It appears that way.... Or stuff is getting replaced inappropriately.

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[webster]

Honestly I think that a hex might have been right for one of them, I think I was just able to gain enough leverage with the t-50 that it worked out enough to move the tensioner

[das boots]

Dunno about replacing inappropriately....since I just replaced (looks like) the belts, pulleys and tensioners the first time. Me thinks that there could be a problem on supply and demand on the delivery of bolts in the factory. So, they ended up interchanging bolts as required with parts at hand. And this is sloppy.

[kayger12]

Honestly I think that a hex might have been right for one of them, I think I was just able to gain enough leverage with the t-50 that it worked out enough to move the tensioner

Yep, was typing this up before I saw this post.

I think this is where a lot of the discrepancy arises.

[danewilson77]

Yep, was typing this up before I saw this post.

I think this is where a lot of the discrepancy arises.

Which one? We know that the Hydraulic tensioner takes a Torx.

[kayger12]

I can't remember which is which. I know one of mine was a torx, and the other was like an 8mm hex.

I think maybe the hydraulic tensioner is a torx and the mechanical tensioner is the hex??

Either way, my thought was that some people are just using the torx for the hex bolt.

[danewilson77]

I can't remember which is which. I know one of mine was a torx, and the other was like an 8mm hex.

I think maybe the hydraulic tensioner is a torx and the mechanical tensioner is the hex??

Either way, my thought was that some people are just using the torx for the hex bolt.

OK.....got it. I would believe 100% that the Mech Tensioner uses a hex.

The Hydraulic is a T50, while the de-tension arm on the AC tensioner is a T60.

[kayger12]

Is the idler pulley a hex? I know I used a hex when I did all my pulleys.

[danewilson77]

No...that's a big ass bolt....

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/07119904677/ES14608/

[kayger12]

Lol-- I'm getting close to just pulling my airbox, fan, and dust caps...

[das boots]

OK.....got it. I would believe 100% that the Mech Tensioner uses a hex.

The Hydraulic is a T50, while the de-tension arm on the AC tensioner is a T60.

I agree. Both of them are torx bolts. Photos I provided was deceiving that one of them looks like a hex. But in reality, both are torx since I have gone back to view more of my photos in my folder and as you stated are T50 & T60.

[danewilson77]

Every bolt on the Mech tensioner is a Hex bolt.....for ZHP....

[danewilson77]

Same with 2001 325i....just to mix it up. The only head (Female....i.e. where you would need a hex/Torx driver) according to Realoem drawings is the one Torx on the Hydraulic tensioner......and the T60 on the arm of the AC pulley.