Suspension Gurus-What's wrong with my car?!

[JohnnyGraphic]

Here is a picture of my passenger front tire. Notice the severe cupping and the wear on the inside of the treads. The driver's side is nothing like it. Both have the same mileage on them.
3111
Is this indicative of alignment, control arm bushings, toe adjustment, camber or lack of proper tire pressure or...???

I am planning on doing some maintenance and replacement of some suspension bits on my car (so far, control arm bushings for sure). I don't want to tear into the control arm bushing replacement only to find that I need the entire control arms too. Or if there are other parts that I need to check for too.

Thanks for all suggestions and recommendations.

Johnny

[Hornung418]

Mileage?

Could be your bushings. Do you have shudder under braking?

When was your last alignment?

[GMATT]

When mine looked almost like that........CAB's and was out of alignment.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Thanks for the responses guys!

They've got about 43k miles on them(!). They're Yokohama S-Drives. I guess I shouldn't complain too much as that is about twice the mileage I was getting out of the Michelin PS2's that I love so much. I put them on back in 6/2008. Last alignment was 6/2010 at about 75k miles.

No shudder under braking. No other sounds or clunking etc. I was guessing that the CAB's needed to be replaced.

Johnny

[danewilson77]

Cough, cough.... You have 43k on those. That's about 13k more than I have ever gotten out of a set.

Yup... As mentioned.... Suspension components..... Could even be a bad shock that doesn't keep the wheel on the ground.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[JohnnyGraphic]

Yeah, I know-A TON more mileage than I've gotten with anything else. Only wish I liked them as much as the PS2's.

I have an older set of the PS2's (about half-tread) that I'm going to rotate in on the fronts. Once those wear out along with the rears (Bridgestone RE760's), I'll be putting some Pilot Super Sports.

So, shocks eh? Gosh, I hope not. This is going to get expensive.

[zj96sc]

I'd check ball joints, TREs, FCABs.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Ball joints in the control arm? What is a TRE? (Sorry, not too hip on some of the lingo).

[zj96sc]

qtys are per side:

ball joints on the control arm (2x), tie rod end (1x, 2 ends....one at rack, one at knuckle), and front control arm bushing (1x). no apologies necessary!

Get under there with a crowbar and start pushing and pulling on stuff. most failed balljoints still take a fair bit of leverage to show themselves.

[nike001]

Cough, cough.... You have 43k on those. That's about 13k more tea I have ever gotten out of a set.

Yup... As mentioned.... Suspension components..... Could even be a bad shock that doesn't keep the wheel on the ground.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

43,000 and 13,000 more than Dane ever got?! Well, lets see.. 43,000 miles is about umm...35,000 more miles than I got from my first set of Pirelli's. Lol

[JohnnyGraphic]

Thanks zj! I'll probably be under the car this weekend. Will try to see what I can find out.

Been looking into it. Looks like the ECS has a ZHP specific control arms. The control arm bushings that I see most are Meyle HD or the Powerflex.

Johnny

[zj96sc]

no sweat! good luck getting her sorted.

OEM ZHP control arms are the only way you can (should?) go.

Meyle HDs are a great choice for new FCABs. Have a box of them to put on my ZHP, dad runs them, friends run them. All happy.

TREs I'd go OEM.

[JohnnyGraphic]

Cool. Thanks for the suggestions!

[llll1l1ll]

Ball joints in the control arm? What is a TRE? (Sorry, not too hip on some of the lingo).

I think TRE means tie rod end.

[danewilson77]

43,000 and 13,000 more than Dane ever got?! Well, lets see.. 43,000 miles is about umm...35,000 more miles than I got from my first set of Pirelli's. Lol

Because race car is....

[JohnnyGraphic]

Well, old PS2's are too flat spotted to be fitted.

So 4 new Michelin Super Sports and $1500 lighter...Including alignment.

Will be bringing car to tech for suspension issues. Wheel works tech said toe problems caused the cupping.

[Smolck]

My bet is your toe is way out of whack. It is amazing how fast a bad toe setting can kill tires. I changed my control arms and didn't get an alignment. The tires in the pic were bought brand new and had 7000 miles on them. Turned out my toe was out of whack, by a bunch!

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=183788&d=1241286655

[JohnnyGraphic]

My bet is your toe is way out of whack. It is amazing how fast a bad toe setting can kill tires. I changed my control arms and didn't get an alignment. The tires in the pic were bought brand new and had 7000 miles on them. Turned out my toe was out of whack, by a bunch!

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=183788&d=1241286655

That's exactly what happened. I remember seeing that picture when I was researching my tire problems.

Specified Range for Toe is between +.08 and +.16 degrees. Front Right Toe was at +.30 degrees!!! Left was at -.027 degrees!!!

Right Rear was at +.24 degrees (way out of spec) and the left was at +.10 (within spec).

I know my Control Arm Bushings need to be replaced, but will need to check other suspension bits as well. I take it that the Toe is adjusted with the Tie Rod Ends right?

Will need to do some searching to see just how hard it will be do to a DIY on these things. Not looking forward to this at all.

Johnny

[JohnnyGraphic]

All in all, I really shouldn't complain too much. I got 43k miles out of the fronts-Yokohama S-Drives and 22k miles out of the rears-Bridgestone RE-760's. I had to replace the rears since the Michelin Pilot Super Sports doesn't play well with others (should mix & match) and they were worn down to 4/32 and 2.5/32's (Just barely under the 3/32's mark).

Now, I get to go play on some serious rubber. I know they will far exceed anything I can throw at them.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions!

Johnny

[Smolck]

I take it that the Toe is adjusted with the Tie Rod Ends right?


Yep. You may want to reach out to JVR826 on Bimmerfest. He has a track prepped ZHP that he does his own alignments for, he can tell you how to do it properly.

[JohnnyGraphic]

I saw a post on e46fanatics about it. Looked pretty involved.

They did the alignment yesterday when I had the wheels mounted & balanced. Once I get my suspension sorted out, they said that they will do another alignment complimentary. They have a 12 month/12k mile alignment deal. (Wheel Works).

Q: Aside from hitting pot holes etc, what would cause the toe to go out that much? Is that indicative of worn bushings on my tie rods?

I'm just trying to gauge what else I need to look into as far as suspension work.

Johnny

[danewilson77]

If you need new tie rods....they should identify that during the alignement, and tell you.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Yep. You may want to reach out to JVR826 on Bimmerfest. He has a track prepped ZHP that he does his own alignments for, he can tell you how to do it properly.

Jeff is also a member at zhpmafia.com as well. Same user name.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnnyGraphic]

Hoping to get under the car this weekend and check things out. Still up in the air if I want to go full-bore and refresh the rest of the suspension/control arms/tie-rod etc or just keep it cheap and simple with the control arm bushings only.

Either way, Wheel Works will re-align the car afterwards.

Johnny

[LivesNearCostco]

If you made the camber a lot more negative without adjusting toe, that makes the front wheels toe out (not sure if more negative camber in rear also makes rear toe out). So I suppose if you just lower the car without adjusting anything else, that makes camber more negative and makes front toe out.

But what Dane said is more likely.

[danewilson77]

+1. I think a rough thumbrule is 1" lower = -1* camber.

HTC Thunderbolt+TT

[JohnnyGraphic]

Thanks everybody! This helped me tremendously with my car!

The FAMILY RULES!!!

Johnny

[LivesNearCostco]

Thanks, Dane. I didn't know what the rule of thumb was, but now I do! Which is important now that I will soon have the ability to lower my car. I wasn't planning to lower it but since I wanted to get more negative front camber than my plates will currently allow, the gears are turning in my mind. With stock springs, my front wheels only get to about -3° if I push the camber plates all the way in. If I lower the fronts a half inch, will I be able to get to -3.5°? Hmmmm...