Leaky Fuel Injector

[echo46]

A while back, I posted that I have been having warm start up issues. Namely, when I start the car for the first time of the day everything is fine. However, after the car is driven then turned off and sits for over 30 minutes it does not start on the first crank. It starts on the second attempt, idles rough, I hit the gas and everything is perfect.

I tried a plethera of fixes to include: Clean ICV, Clean throttle body, Check DISA, Replace all plugs, Vanos rebuild, Intake boot replace with silicon Stett boots, CCV and all affiliated hose replace, Fuel filter replace and Fuel pump and sender replace. None of this cured the issue.

I am now 90% sure it is a leaky fuel injector. I think what is happening is that the car runs then is turned off and there is a very slow fuel injector leak which is causing the difficult restart. Then when the car sits over night all the gas from the leak evaporates and there is no trouble on the first start of the day.

My question is does any one have a detailed description on how to pull the fuel rail with the injectors still attached to determine which injector(s) is/are leaking? Or is there another way to determine which injuector is leaking without pulling the rail?

[Hornung418]

If your suspecting an injector leak, it's best to pull all of them and service each one.

In order to access them, first pull your fuel pump fuse and run the car til it dies. Then you'll need to get all the basic stuff out of the way and remove the injector harness, which is quite a pain in the arse. Once you've exposed the rail in it's entirety, there are two 10mm nuts and nothing more. Leave the clips that hold the injectors to the rails and give them a tug. Don't fear them. They won't break and the rail won't bend. Now position them in a low plastic container to catch any gas that remains in the line. Pull the clips and remove the injectors. You are now ready to service them with an appropriate kit or send them off to be professionally refurbished.

[echo46]

Thanks for the reply, what type of kit are you talking about. Is the kit a DIY?

[danewilson77]

This diy....wow. Adding to my list.

http://%3cbr%3ewww.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571302

[echo46]

Dane, you are the man, just what I was looking for. Is there a "test" to determine which injector is leaking?

[danewilson77]

I'm sure there is. I will hunt around. I tell you....I'm pretty confident that I could swap new injectors in...with that DIY though.

[danewilson77]

Read through this thread as well.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=823859&mid=0

[echo46]

Thank you again, my G. That second thread is exactly my problem to a T. I will be buying new rings and following these threads this weekend.

[shanneba]

Have you tried a fuel pressure test?

The fuel pressure should stay within a few psi for 30 minutes or more after the car is turned off.

Some additional troubleshooting info:

http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/05/38/45
Complaint: starting problems
- Run engine briefly at idle speed and switch off.
- Note down measured value while engine is stopped.
- Read off measured value again after approx. 20 to 30 minutes while engine is stopped.

Changing Fuel Injectors:
http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/06/04/55
http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/09/80/00

You might consider getting your injectors cleaned:
http://www.injectorrx.com/

[echo46]

Thank you shanneba. Good stuff. First thing this morning I'm going to start the car and spray some carp cleaner at the injectors and see if I get any idle bounce. If nothing I may do compression test.

[echo46]

Alas, after after nine months of toil and hand wringing, I successfully diagnosed and fixed the issue with my Penelope that has so haunted me. As you can read from earlier in the post, I tried about everything I could think of to cure my warm start up issues. Spark Plugs, CCV, hoses, intake boots, icv clean, MAF clean, DISA, throttle body, fuel pump, fuel filter, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Other than this very annoying but fairly benign issue, my car ran exceptionally well and was perfect. After a while I sort of suspected a gas delivery issue but was loath to pull the fuel rail. I manned up today, with the help of Dane's threads, and pulled the fuel rail. I kept the injectors attached and charged the system and wha la, there it is...one leaking fuel injector. I was so excited that I lost my mind and bought the new injector from the stealership. Those bastards charged me $175 for one injector. My ass still hurts from that one. However, raced home and installed the new injector and now, my gentle readers, all is right in the world! I can't tell you all how happy I am.

[kayger12]

^Great news and nice job!

This will be a very valuable thread for a lot of us down the road, I suspect.

[echo46]

This issue really was an albatross around my neck. Interestingly, I don't think I would have figured out that it was a leaky fuel injector until I did all of the vacuum leak fixes. In my opinion, the symptoms are very close to vacuum leak issues so only after intake boots icv etc did I start thinking about fuel delivery. Not a lot out there on this but Dane found some really good threads that finally brought this home for me.

[Hornung418]

Great info!! So you pulled the Fuel Rail and just used the Schraeder Valve to charge the rail and watch for leaking or is that only a one way valve?

[mimalmo]

I had injector #6 on my E34 that was leaking. Some new o-rings made it like new again. The parts were like $20 for my E34 so if you can do something similar, I'd say it's worth a try.

[echo46]

The O Rings on all the injectors were fine. What I did was took the electric box off the injectors then released all the fuel pressure via the schrader valve. I pulled the fuel injectors out but kept the the fuel line attached and the injectors attached to the rail. Then I put paper towels under each injector and charged the fuel system by turning the key to position one. I waited about 5 minutes and checked the paper towels. I discovered that the injector closest to the firewall was dripping gas. Replaced that bastard and it was fixed.

[danewilson77]

The O Rings on all the injectors were fine. What I did was took the electric box off the injectors then released all the fuel pressure via the schrader valve. I pulled the fuel injectors out but kept the the fuel line attached and the injectors attached to the rail. Then I put paper towels under each injector and charged the fuel system by turning the key to position one. I waited about 5 minutes and checked the paper towels. I discovered that the injector closest to the firewall was dripping gas. Replaced that bastard and it was fixed.

Win. My Hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koJlIGDImiU&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Sent from SIGFest 2012, via TTv1.5.4

[Hornung418]

Okay this sounds like a good test! I'll do this during the coming summer.

I'm on the moon.

[echo46]

Hornung, are you having the same issues as I was having? First check if the o rings are leaking by spraying carb cleaner around the fuel rail and each injector, before you pull the whole rail. Do this on the first start with a cold engine. If the o rings are leaking you will hear the engine idle bouncing around.

[Hornung418]

I'll be swapping injectors for 24#/hr. I just want to test my injectors.

I'm on the moon.

[MrMaico]

Nice work! Glad you got it figured out.

Danes link in post #4 isn't working for me?

I believe it is this thread though......

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571302

Lots of good info there so I figured I'd post it for future searchers.

[Simmsled]

... I was so excited that I lost my mind and bought the new injector from the stealership. ...

I nearly crapped my pants when I read this. LOL awesome!

On another note... I'm going to be attempting this as I think I have some injectors leaking. VERY similar failure mode.

[Simmsled]

This thread delivers.
Helped me diagnose a leaky injector.
Will update tomorrow when the new injector arrives and is installed.

Here is a pic outlining the situation after removing the rail and pressurizing it by turning the key to the 'on' position and then turning off and leaving it for a few minutes: 18602

[ZHPizza]

Just wanted to resurrect this thread to thank everyone that contributed. I have been chasing a warm start issue in all the wrong places, but now I'm convinced that it's a leaking fuel injector. I'm going to pull them from the car tonight and run them up to a local guy to do a thorough clean/rebuild.

[ZHPizza]

Melancholy midterm update: they tested my injectors at high pressure and even heated them to simulate my warm start issue and never saw a leak. Hopefully the cleaning/rebuild was worth the effort.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/a787f9c2ab1f48e07f5fd289680d8d53.jpg

[ZHPizza]

Son of a bitch.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170330/a7502f65001dad934cba56383864847f.jpg

Two and a half leaking injectors. Can we not use Bosch injectors in the M54? I don't want to replace garbage with garbage.

[BMWCurves]

Damn, dude. That sucks. Someone will come along with better knowledge than I have about suggestions

A moment of levity for you though, with respect to your fuel injectors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJEzl31zL-I&t=30s

[ZHPizza]

Damn, dude. That sucks. Someone will come along with better knowledge than I have about suggestions

A moment of levity for you though, with respect to your fuel injectors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJEzl31zL-I&t=30s

LOL thanks brotha

Now I can dance around the garage while I watch these little shits drip fuel

SHE LEAKIN

SHE SOAKIN WET

[ZHPizza]

Dropping an update here for anyone that comes along: I swapped the leaky little shits for 6 rebuilt injectors from ebay and the car starts and runs like a champ again.

The guy at the injector shop was bewildered at how they were still leaking, so he's refunding my $$$ and I'm sending him the old injectors to play with. All is well!

[BMWCurves]

Dropping an update here for anyone that comes along: I swapped the leaky little shits for 6 rebuilt injectors from ebay and the car starts and runs like a champ again.

The guy at the injector shop was bewildered at how they were still leaking, so he's refunding my $$$ and I'm sending him the old injectors to play with. All is well!

1. Great to hear you solved your problem and 2. glad to hear the guy who cleaned/"fixed" your old injectors was willing to refund your money. That's how you do good business.

[ZHPizza]

1. Great to hear you solved your problem and 2. glad to hear the guy who cleaned/"fixed" your old injectors was willing to refund your money. That's how you do good business.

Yep, he's a good dude. I can't recover the time spent swapping in/out the leaky injectors or driving to/from his office, but I can chalk all that up to learning experience and now I have a contact the next time I have fuel injection questions.

Oh, and the car runs like stink now. It's hard not to be happy.

[slater]

1. Great to hear you solved your problem and 2. glad to hear the guy who cleaned/"fixed" your old injectors was willing to refund your money. That's how you do good business.

+1... it's all about service.



Yep, he's a good dude. I can't recover the time spent swapping in/out the leaky injectors or driving to/from his office, but I can chalk all that up to learning experience and now I have a contact the next time I have fuel injection questions.

Oh, and the car runs like stink now. It's hard not to be happy.

sweet. happy for ya, man! glad you got it licked.

[Sockethead]

Respect for the guy who didn't fix the injectors for wanting your old ones to figure out what went wrong with his TS and cleaning.

[Fried_Chicken]

So your injectors are still leaking but your car runs fine again?

[ZHPizza]

So your injectors are still leaking but your car runs fine again?Nah, I replaced them with a rebuilt set from eBay. They worked out great.