Post VANOS Rebuild Issues: Rough Idle + Popping Sound

[wertyu78]

Car: 2004 ZHP(M54B30 Double Vanos)

I'm having an issue with my car after installing the Beisan systems seals and anti-rattle kit. The actual re-building of the VANOS systems was a breeze especially with the directions provided by Rajaje . No complaints here.

I did however break a VANOS bolt and it fell into the exhaust spline shaft. I ordered the German Auto Solutions double VANOS cam timing tool kit and removed the broken bolt from the spline shaft. I had to re-time the motor and got everything timed correctly. I verified by manually turning the crank clockwise twice and:
-Made sure the cam lock blocks sat evenly with the head
-Verified the dots on the back of the cams were facing upwards
-Verified the harmonic balancer was showing TDC with both cam lobes facing each other
-Used locking pin to lock TDC on bellhousing


I made sure everything was put back together properly using all new gaskets, washers, seals, etc. I installed new spark plugs and verified all of the wiring and connections. When starting, the idle is very rough. It seems like it is misfiring on many cylinders. After the engine runs for a few minutes a very loud "popping sound" comes from the intake manifold area. I immediately turned the car off and haven't started it since. The sound is identical to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Bv8x49g8STc

2 weeks ago I completely overhauled the CCV system with all new hoses and the valve. I cleaned the throttle body and ICV. The car ran flawlessly afterward. :thumbsup

I'm thinking I've missed a sensor or bumped the crank position sensor loose after removing the locking pin from the crankshaft on the bell housing. :confused

If you can provide any feedback at all, I'd appreciate it greatly. :crying:begging I'm sorry if I've not made myself clear or the post is somewhat "wacky". It's 1:45am and I've been at it for 14 hours.... :eyetwitch

Thanks Mafia,


Wyatt

[danewilson77]

I've heard timing one of these is a bitch. No help here, other than re-do it.

[wertyu78]

Thanks Dane. I used new plugs. I pulled code P0303. I check the new plugs and cylinders1,2, and 3 are fouled. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/16/suva4eve.jpg

I tried the old plugs again but still the same issue. I'm going to take it all apart and start again. I'll keep you all posted. If you have any suggestions feel free to chime in. I haven't driven the ZHP In 6 days.... I'm upset.

[kayger12]

Interesting one to say the least.

My first thought before I read past where you posted the video was something left unplugged or the intake CPS. I then saw that you came to the same conclusion. I think you're on the right track.

Keeping fingers crossed that it's something simple.

[wertyu78]

Anything I should check out before taking it all apart? I know re-timing the motor wouldn't hurt, but if there is something I could check before wrenching for another 5 hours... well that would be nice. I'm stumped guys.

[echo46]

Make sure you hooked up all the sensors and hooked them up correctly. That octopus of wires can get confusing. Use the Bently manual and carefully check your connections. I mixed up a sensor connect and had similar problem.

[wertyu78]

I pulled the valve cover and inspected everything. All looks fine! Thank goodness. CPS on bell housing was connected properly, CPS on head on(left side of VANOS) connected, thermostat connected, VANOS connected, grounds for spark plugs connected securely, coil pack wires connected securely.... I'm running out of ideas fellas. I'm going to grab some breakfast and think about it, then start the re-timing process.

[danewilson77]

Anything I should check out before taking it all apart? I know re-timing the motor wouldn't hurt, but if there is something I could check before wrenching for another 5 hours... well that would be nice. I'm stumped guys.

KG has a good point. Ensure intake and exhaust CPS's are connected properly as well as vanos solonoid. Do a once over on every. Change the plugs....try to start without installing everything again (covers, etc...)

EDIT: I see your post above now.

[echo46]

That's what I'm thinking intake and exhaust reversed.

[wertyu78]

That's what I'm thinking intake and exhaust reversed.

Intake and exhaust sensors reversed?

[danewilson77]

Not sure it's even possible with the length of the wires being what they are.

Echo...have you heard of someone doing this before?

[328ioc]

Not sure it's even possible with the length of the wires being what they are.

Echo...have you heard of someone doing this before?

This. I believe the wire runs make it nearly impossible to do this.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[wertyu78]

I was thinking the same thing. The length of the wiring wouldn't allow such a thing.

[wertyu78]

Update:


After taking everything apart again, I verified that the timing was in fact correct. With the VANOS still attached to the head and spark plugs pulled, I manually cranked the motor clockwise to align the motor to TDC. I slid the crankshaft locking pin and after that the cam lock blocks sat evenly with the cylinder head without an issue. Both cams showed the dots facing upward and the cam lobes were facing each other as they should. I removed the VANOS and started the re-timing process once again, but ran into an issue. I broke a bolt(shitty Northern Tool torque wrench) that holds the secondary timing chain tensioner in place.

http://i49.tinypic.com/4jtbv4.png


I've ordered the part from my local dealership but it wont be here until tuesday. All progress has been stopped. I'm running out of ideas. If the timing was correct, what is the problem?

[echo46]

I agree, I don't think the wire lengths would allow it. I remember when I replaced my upper and lower intake boots and cleaned the ICV that when I plugged all the sensors back in I had misfires and bad idle. I now remember when I went back in there I forgot to hook one of the sensors up causing the misfires.

[wsmeyer]

I don't think this is possible do to the wire lengths either but double check that the wires going to the ignition coils on each spark plug didn't get crossed. Particularly 2 & 3 that are now fouled.

[wertyu78]

I'll be sure to double and triple check everything once the new bolt comes in and everything gets out back together. If I'm still having issues, I'll tow it to the Indy.

[Dave_B]

Hey Wyatt, sorry hear about this buddy.

I personally don't think it's P2V contact or anything like that or the sound that is in that video would be constant.

Old trick to source a noise like that is to use a long instrument and put your ear to it. Carefully move the one end around the engine bay with the other next to your ear and use it like a stethoscope to find where that noise is coming from exactly. Long extensions work good for this.

[wertyu78]

The new bolt came in yesterday but I didn't get a chance to install it until today. I put everything back together with the old plugs and it still ran the same.

Popping sound only happened twice. I can now run the car and it not make the popping sound anymore. It seems as I'd cylinders 3,5, and 6 are not firing.

We checked the fuel rail for pressure and that checked out fine. All of the coils are working. Spark plugs new/old have no effect. Grounds for the coils are fine. The little OBD2 code reader pulled P2234: short in O2 sensor heater circuit.


I have a sneaky suspicion it's O2 sensor related. I'm hoping I can get access to a full diagnostics machine tomorrow. So close....

[Dave_B]

Wyatt, if things work out... I'll have access to GT1 with SSS and DIS on Sunday.

I'll keep you posted. I'm hoping we get that thing worked out. My step dad is in town who used to be a BMW Step Program instructor for UTI. :)

[wertyu78]

Wyatt, if things work out... I'll have access to GT1 with SSS and DIS on Sunday.

I'll keep you posted. I'm hoping we get that thing worked out. My step dad is in town who used to be a BMW Step Program instructor for UTI. :)

Dave,


That would be excellent! I'm in the process of setting up a Gt1, but am having trouble getting the required .iso files. Maybe later down the road that'll be settled and we will have direct access to Gt1 here :)

Until then, keep me posted. Beers on me!

[Dave_B]

He had it at the house 2 weeks ago, but the "head" that connects to the yellow box was bad. He thinks he's found another one "at the office" that seems to be communicating.

Now I have to dissect the network connection piece. Shouldn't be too bad. I'm hoping to tinker this weekend, and if I can get all the ducks in a row we'll have access here in the upstate and surrounding area's to it.

[wertyu78]

Things got very interesting.

[wertyu78]

Car is fine. Better than ever. Thanks everyone for the help.

[MrMaico]

Car is fine. Better than ever. Thanks everyone for the help.

What did it end up being? That spitting/coughing sound sure sounded like some kind of timing issue causing a backfire through the intake.

Barry

[wertyu78]

What did it end up being? That spitting/coughing sound sure sounded like some kind of timing issue causing a backfire through the intake.

Barry

Someone one way or another it must've been out of time somewhere. My Indy mechanic said everything looked fine and in time when he took it apart.... so we're stumped on that one.

I ended up rebuilding the head completely with 24 new valves, springs, stem seals, and headgasket. The head was hot bathed and decked slightly(within spec of course). While it was all apart I spend 6 hours detailing the engine bay and engine block while everything was easily accessible. New ofhg and oil pan gasket as well. Intake manifold was fine and had correct voltage as well.

It's safe to say the ZHP has never been better! With the rebuilt top end, rebuilt VANOS, and new plugs.... it pulls very well. I've out roughly 1600 miles on it so far without any issues at all. Averaging 24mpg city and 33mpg highway at 80-85mph.


I was very close to swapping an entire m3 drivetrain into the car, but someone bought the donor car before I could even get the cash from my bank. $4300 for an entire m3 with perfect drivetrain, interior, vert top, etc. still upset about that

[wertyu78]

Excuse the poor grammar... I'm typing this on 3 hours sleep in the backseat of a pickup on the way to Jacksonville.

[Dave_B]

Good Stuff Wyatt!!!

[wertyu78]

Good Stuff Wyatt!!!

Thanks! Looking forward to seeing you resolve the starting issue with your car. Let me know if I can help.