Electrical Lighting issues.

[danewilson77]

Just dropped off the ZHP to have some body work completed. I had a rust spot, a couple of small clearcoat issues (warrantied), and I'm finally getting the front bumper done up proper. The splitters will be seamless. I'm maintaining them black. We'll see how it comes out. Then new tires, and suspension work.

OK....so....as the wife is following me to the body shop, I notice BOTH rear tail light indicators are on, on the dash...mmmm....

So.....I press the brake and ask the wife to watch (via cell phone....she's behind me), and she says my lights are on already (I'm not pressing the brake yet). So I press the brake, but it didn't change any indications. Shut down and restarted the car at the body shop with no change in indications.

This is a weird one.

Mind you the car just sat for ten 10 days in my garage. I think the battery is going. It also had a bit of a rough start as well. Other recent issues are the A/E's would not work. Rectified by over-fusing the A/E circuit (5 to 10 amp fuse).

I'll do a 19:7 (OBC Battery voltage) when I drive it home on Friday.

Did I mention I hate dropping my car off (with the key) anywhere?

[Dave1027]

Shorted brake light switch?

[danewilson77]

Dunno. Gonna have to wait until I get it back to sort it out on Friday. Just needed some idea's from you guys. Thanks Dave.

We all know how shitty the elctronics get on the e46 when they sit for an extended period of time (with and oldish battery). Purchased 3 years ago (I know...below normal life expectancy), but it's been used a lot (if that makes sense...has about 80k miles on it....)

[Johnmadd]

The brake switch may need adjusted but if it hasn't been tampered with that is unlikely. I would go to the auto part store and have them put a load on it, this is better than the diagnosis sytem that is built in or manual testing with mm.

[danewilson77]

Why would the lights on the dash be on, while the lights in the tailights are on? I thought the lights on the dash were "bulb out" indicators?

[sillieidiot]

Why would the lights on the dash be on, while the lights in the tailights are on? I thought the lights on the dash were "bulb out" indicators?

but not for the brake lights. i think BMW implemented a fail safe where if there is a break in the system somewhere, the indicators come on, and the brake lights stay on permanently.

[Oli77]

The brake lights, the dash lights and the AEs suddenly drawing more current. Soon it will be the radio.

I bet battery as you suspected.

[danewilson77]

Yeah...something funky going on. Keep tossing me idea's when you guys think of them.

[danewilson77]

Bump for more ideas.

Tried a quick battery disconnect tonight (30 minutes). No bueno.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[johnrando]

Wish I had something to offer.

[BavarianZHP]

I have an intermittent version of what you have. Perhaps take a knife to your trunk loom and check that. It's apparently a very common issue with E46's and E39's. The wires there will eventually fray with the opening and closing of the trunk. Also check your ground:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=512469&highlight=

[danewilson77]

I have an intermittent version of what you have. Perhaps take a knife to your trunk loom and check that. It's apparently a very common issue with E46's and E39's. The wires there will eventually fray with the opening and closing of the trunk. Also check your ground:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=512469&highlight=

Thanks.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[brettbimmer]

DW, can you get someone to actually load-test the battery for you with a good load-tester? I believe that the most accurate readings for this is when it is disconnected from the car to do so. This may help you get to the bottom of eliminating the battery from possible causes of this issue.

[danewilson77]

Great idea Brett.

The guys down here think I have the wrong bulbs installed. We pulled them and sure enough they're not correct.

I have never touched these bulbs, so if they are the cause, Idk why 2 years after the fact, they would cause fits with the circuit. Never know though.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[brettbimmer]

Ha, it's a Bimmer! If it isn't a nickel-based bulb, she ain't happy. I really hope that it is that simple!!

[danewilson77]

Nope. Bulb swap out no bueno.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[brettbimmer]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Well, maybe the load-test on the batt. will be the next reveal, though if the battery is only 3 years old, I can't imagine that it is bad yet...unless it has a bad cell or something.

[kayger12]

Man, I hate to even think this, but check all the wires/looms/harnesses in the areas where your little furry friends had taken up shop...

Sent from my kick-A Galaxy S3

[danewilson77]

Took a gamble on a $43 brake switch from the dealer.

No bueno :shifty

[wsmeyer]

I was looking through the E46 wiring diagram for some ideas and found the LCM has an Emergency Mode:

- Tail lights and low beam are switched on at terminal 15 irrespective of the position of the corresponding light switch
- Left and right brake lights are switched on at terminal 15 and the brake light switch operated
- Direction indicators, hazard warning lights, high beam, headlight flasher, fog lights and rear fog lights cannot be switched on.

Do you have those symptoms as well?

[wsmeyer]

Also, regarding the brake light switch...

"If the signals are not plausible in relation to one another, a fault code is stored in the DME control module. Cruise control is deactivated as a result of this fault memory entry"

[Johnmadd]

Dane,

When should we meet tomorrow morning so I can fix this for you?

[danewilson77]

Dane,

When should we meet tomorrow morning so I can fix this for you?

Morning....say 1000.

William, thanks for the research. I don't think I have those indications.

The only indications I have is that the brake lights are on, as soon as I turn the key on, and the bulb out indicators on the dash are on as well.

All of my research still leads me to the brake switch. It may need to be adjusted, as it may not be making the proper contact with the flat piece.

The dealer told me it was self adjusting and it made sense on the way it is put together. I need to get back under there with Johns help and depress the switch manually to see if it will make the lights go out.

We'll see.

[wsmeyer]

Morning....say 1000.

William, thanks for the research. I don't think I have those indications.

The only indications I have is that the brake lights are on, as soon as I turn the key on, and the bulb out indicators on the dash are on as well.

All of my research still leads me to the brake switch. It may need to be adjusted, as it may not be making the proper contact with the flat piece.

The dealer told me it was self adjusting and it made sense on the way it is put together. I need to get back under there with Johns help and depress the switch manually to see if it will make the lights go out.

We'll see.

No problem. I figured you would have mentioned those other symptoms but it never hurts to double check. The only other things I found is that it's powered by fuse 9 and these notes on the switch itself:

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/us/zinfo/FOI0398FB-056613101.htm

[danewilson77]

Update:

Un-plugging the brake switch while the car is running does nothing.

Wire loom at boot lid looks fine.

[danewilson77]

Update: FIXED!!!

Holy shit.

It was fuse 9. Didn't look blown but decided to swap out anyways......and voila!

Goddamnmothef*ckingsonofabi^&ch...........Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhh.

[Oli77]

Maybe, remove the computer cover in the engine bay and make sure all wires are making good connections.

I add my temp gauge do funky things and after opening the computer cover and touching around in there, the symptoms of bad temp gauge reading on the cluster are gone 90% of time.

[midlandtech]

Update: FIXED!!!

Holy shit.

It was fuse 9. Didn't look blown but decided to swap out anyways......and voila!

Goddamnmothef*ckingsonofabi^&ch...........Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhh.

ha... dont ya hate it when ya overlook a simple thing like that. glad ya got it fixed and it wasn't anything major.

[danewilson77]

Fuse was what I checked first. Didn't look blown, so I threw is back in. Today I tested it and it was bad, not visually, but internally....FML.

[SoCalZman]

Fuse was what I checked first. Didn't look blown, so I threw is back in. Today I tested it and it was bad, not visually, but internally....FML.

Odd. I think I have solved more problems on my cars with fuses than anything else. Just off the top of my head: rad fan in my 82 Toyota tercel. Headlight motors, interior lights, and a few other things with just one little fuse on my 86 300ZX Turbo. Seat motors on my 95 BMW 5 series. Magical little pieces of plastic and metal :-)

[danewilson77]

Ugh. Not fixed. I guess when I was putting foot well panel back in I bumped the trunk switch.

Went to take Son to mall, and noticed trunk light on. Got out with car running and shut trunk lid. Boom... Brake lights back on... Fml.

Must be something in that
Wire loom. What a pita :facepalm

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[alexandre]

Did you do the tail light ground recall ? I had to do it for my car to be legal in Canada (has to have all recalls taken care of). Sounds like something that could cause the issues you're experiencing.

[danewilson77]

Did you do the tail light ground recall ? I had to do it for my car to be legal in Canada (has to have all recalls taken care of). Sounds like something that could cause the issues you're experiencing.

Yup. Done.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[midlandtech]

Yup. Done.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

Did the shutting of the trunk lid cause the lights to come on? If so you might have it isolated to the trunk

[Johnmadd]

We ruled a few things out tonight and still no changes. :(

I found this


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:dBK4JlOGSlIJ:prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/library/bmw/Technician/Archived%2520Courses/ST401%2520Body%2520Electronics%2520II_archive%2520 05-11/03c_E46%2520Lighting%2520Systems.pdf+e46+light+swi tch+module+warning+rear&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShol9ZmbmA8UUbvAVgGHZQLthvs0YePjEx2xA4_ KoMJ6j4YqTac523D1WDLovtfCplg1B44Gukvhtfj9ZMZwSp2K8-Q1MfrOQ30dqOQFVxpG6iZteYavEbG_dmPpDKKyUtrS1Yc&sig=AHIEtbTc-p-gqqmvzKSEdvC_gYzemj30Dg

[danewilson77]

Sent a PM to post #9 guy.

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=770584

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[Johnmadd]

Most of that stuff is similar to what we were covering. I thought this was a good "clue"

Do you know anyone else w/ an E46 coupe? Try swapping LSZs to see if it still happens. Keep in mind that while you have another car's LSZ in there, the tamper dot will show in your cluster. This will go away once you put your old LSZ back.

We can swap and go back to original without the tamper dot... I think that's what he interpreted.

[danewilson77]

Most of that stuff is similar to what we were covering. I thought this was a good "clue"

Do you know anyone else w/ an E46 coupe? Try swapping LSZs to see if it still happens. Keep in mind that while you have another car's LSZ in there, the tamper dot will show in your cluster. This will go away once you put your old LSZ back.

We can swap and go back to original without the tamper dot... I think that's what he interpreted.

I have not pulled the link yet because I'm on my phone still.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[Johnmadd]

I have not pulled the link yet because I'm on my phone still.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

That is post #8 (I think) from your link in your last post, actually it was from a member here, teraphntom.

[danewilson77]

That is post #8 (I think) from your link in your last post, actually it was from a member here, teraphntom.

Ok.

Sent from the HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA and USA

[wsmeyer]

I don't think it's the LSZ as he doesn't have any of the other symptoms. The paper linked above and the service notes I found are very specific:


Emergency (Failsafe Lighting)

The LSZ provides emergency lighting in the event of a control module failure. If the
processor of the LSZ control module fails, back up hardware will allow the following
lighting circuits to function:

• Low Beam headlights

• Tail lights

• Parking Lights

• Brake Lights

The headlights and tail lights will come on as soon as KL 15 is switched on, the brake
will operate when the brake pedal is pressed.

Direction indicators, hazard warning lights, high beam, headlight flasher, fog lights and
rear fog lights cannot be switched on.

For some reason the car thinks that the bulbs are out. The commonality between both sides would be the ground so that would be the first place I'd look.

You could also check all the fuses going to the LSZ: 106, 107, 9, 32

[danewilson77]

We ruled a few things out tonight and still no changes. :(

I found this


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:dBK4JlOGSlIJ:prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/library/bmw/Technician/Archived%2520Courses/ST401%2520Body%2520Electronics%2520II_archive%2520 05-11/03c_E46%2520Lighting%2520Systems.pdf+e46+light+swi tch+module+warning+rear&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShol9ZmbmA8UUbvAVgGHZQLthvs0YePjEx2xA4_ KoMJ6j4YqTac523D1WDLovtfCplg1B44Gukvhtfj9ZMZwSp2K8-Q1MfrOQ30dqOQFVxpG6iZteYavEbG_dmPpDKKyUtrS1Yc&sig=AHIEtbTc-p-gqqmvzKSEdvC_gYzemj30Dg


Most of that stuff is similar to what we were covering. I thought this was a good "clue"

Do you know anyone else w/ an E46 coupe? Try swapping LSZs to see if it still happens. Keep in mind that while you have another car's LSZ in there, the tamper dot will show in your cluster. This will go away once you put your old LSZ back.

We can swap and go back to original without the tamper dot... I think that's what he interpreted.


I don't think it's the LSZ as he doesn't have any of the other symptoms. The paper linked above and the service notes I found are very specific:



For some reason the car thinks that the bulbs are out. The commonality between both sides would be the ground so that would be the first place I'd look.

You could also check all the fuses going to the LSZ: 106, 107, 9, 32

Thanks Guys.

I'm going to look at those other three fuses, and look at the trunk lid wiring and license plate wiring.

[danewilson77]

UPDATE:

Fuse 32 was blown. Fuse replaced. Retest SAT. Thanks for the help fella's.

Never seen a blown fuse look all jacked up like that before.

Good fuse on left, bad on right.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/IMAG0422.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/nicee46/media/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/IMAG0422.jpg.html)

Some pics from Bentley that I will include as well....for future helps. Provided by Kayger12 (AKA Malik)

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/20130414_123751.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/nicee46/media/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/20130414_123751.jpg.html)

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/2013041495123731.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/nicee46/media/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/2013041495123731.jpg.html)