Let's say you have $20k for a new car...

[yura]

... what would you buy?

That's not to say I've got $20k burning a hole in my pocket, but that's what I'd imagine I'll be ready to spend sometime towards autumn (and once I sell my current vehicle). Of course, such thoughts can't just be put on a back-burner and forgotten about - there are cars to research and pictures to drool over!

Initial thoughts were to get a "perfect" (for me) 4-door ZHP, likely in the $14-16k range. Great vehicle, 4 door practicality (big plus for me since I have a big dog), etc.

But then I started thinking... a decent E90/E91 model could be had for $5-6k more- might be worth it? The 335's are awesome, but I keep hearing nightmare stories about reliability, and the E90 looks just don't "do" it for me. Maybe with an M-Sport package/bodykit and a nice colour... But still, 335i reliability issues would likely see me in a 328/330, and those cars are even less special. Then again, they do have some more power than the ZHP and updated interiors, which is definitely a nice plus.

More power? But wait, isn't there a somewhat special vehicle with more power and in roughly the same price range? Bring on the ///M! But it's a coupe... although I've lived with a coupe and the dog, and my friends do just fine with their coupe and dog, so maybe I could do it for a few years, too... Reliable platform with amazing looks and power.

Then again there's the option of getting a cheap, higher-mileage ZHP sedan with the intention of swapping in an S54 and the entire M3 drivetrain, but that would probably run me about $10k of parts and labour (estimate totally out of the blue) and put the total price in the neighbourhood of an E90 or clean M3 to begin with... Heck, it doesn't even have to be a ZHP, I could start with a E46 wagon and do the conversion immediately.

Thoughts? What would you do?

[Redline61]

I have thought about a very low mile B7 S4 Audi. Not too powerful and terrible on fuel but a lot of car for the money and make a glorious noise with exhaust.

[Redline61]

Something like this.
http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=90668&title=dolphin-gray-b7-s4&cat=68

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lo4dl_gzcAI/UVdiNJjdyFI/AAAAAAAADi8/e2KbavCJ9B8/w1301-h734/IMAG1917.jpg

[yura]

I've always loved the look of Audis, but haven't been impressed with the interiors of the ones I've seen (older models, 2003-2005 or so). Also heard they're really hard to work on. I think I'll end up with a BMW again :).

[Avetiso]

I'd find a CPO 335i.

Also, for the E90 not "doing" it for you; remember, this is a fanatic site. We don't just like our ZHP's because they are nice cars. We love them in a special way, and part of the reason we love them this way is because they are OUR cars. I find myself looking at disgust (maybe that is extreme) sometimes at other cars that, objectively speaking, are much nicer than my ZHP. But it's not nicer to me. I'm sure if you owned a 335i, you'd fall in love with it. Don't forget, ZHP's have their reliability issues, too.

[cakM3]

For me.... E46 ///M :thumbsup

That's what I would do and keep the ZHP as my daily....what I currently have ;)

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk 2

[yura]

E46 S54 Touring (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=826372) - Wowza

[jgt_zhp]

Illirep's Orient Blue 48k mile ZHP sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

[illirep]

Here is how I justify the cost of owning, maintaining, fixing a used, out-of-warranty BMW over a comparably priced new vehicle: Say you put the same money to work on a very practical 2013 Honda Accord - I'm sure you can get a new LX for very close to $20k all-in. You have a wonderful, nice to look at, good ride quality, runs like an appliance, etc. However, you want to sell it a year later, you'll be lucky to get $15k for it.

You buy a $15k zhp, put $1k-$2k into it during year 1. Chances are, it will be worth $14k to $15k a year later. Which car was more expensive to own?

Comparing a ZHP to other used cars - not much else will match the driving enjoyment to dollar ratio of a ZHP. They are pretty much fully depreciated, they are good on gas, they are safe, they are still better looking than 95% of cars on the road today, and they are a blast to drive! The maintenance quirks are more than worth it!

Edit:
Jeff's post hit while I was typing my response. I'm asking myself as I was typing the above: "why am I selling my zhp?"

[yura]

illirep - spot on, I feel much the same way. The cost of ownership of a new vehicle will be significantly higher than one which has already gone through the big depreciation hit.

I just feel like I want more power than what the ZHP has to offer, thus the thoughts towards the M3 and 335i. Sure, there's always the option of throwing a turbo at the ZHP for $6-7k, and that'll be cheaper than an S54 conversion and more power, but I'd be concerned about long-term reliability. Plus, there's just something very attractive about a NA I6 putting out that much power.

[yura]

On a somewhat-related note, does anyone have photos of an Imola Red ZHP with matching, red body-trim? I've seen such trim for sale, but never seen a photo of it on the car, and think that if I were to end up with a ZHP, that body trim would be something I'd look into getting painted to match the car's colour.

[Stigissimo]

Personally, if I had $20k to use, I would buy an ///M3 or swap an S54 into a ZHP. I think an S54 conversion is just kind of cleaner than a turbo.. I don't really know how to put it..but it's kind of like keeping things in house (BMW) rather than tossing on an aftermarket turbo (not that there's anything wrong with that for you forced-induction guys out there). I guess that's just my style. You may have less power than a turbo, but when you open the bonnet you see that ///M badge on the top of that naturally aspirated S54 and you think "damn.." Plus, you get the immediate tourque of an NA engine.

[BavarianZHP]

I would just buy a $15k ZHP and keep the rest! $5k in gas would get you a lot of road miles and memories. The ZHP is my dream car, so right in every way - especially the sedan. Practical, cheap to buy, cheap on insurance (no ///M status or sporty coupe), unique (all of my friends have never really known about it), great looking, decent power... We all know the perks on owning one! I wouldn't want an e90 M3 if you gave me the keys. Just too impractical and expensive for me. Also, I would be too overly concerned about it. LOL

[Crickett]

E46 http://tcholo.net:8080/images/bmw/m.gifM3, hands-down! Of course that's coming from me, who has a secondary family-hauler to handle the four-door requirements.

[yura]

Sounds like the general consensus is the ZHP route - shoulda known! :thumbsup

Does anyone know whether the 6 speed tranny in the ZHP is the same as in the M3?

// edit - according to this post on E46F (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7684006&postcount=8), they're different.

[Avetiso]

They are different.

[BimmerWill]

Have you considered a 135?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[yura]

Have you considered a 135?

Too small...

Googling around, I'm seeing some stunning E46 wagons!

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4218/dsc4170ez1.jpg

[danewilson77]

Too small...

Googling around, I'm seeing some stunning E46 wagons!

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4218/dsc4170ez1.jpg

No.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/nicee46/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/aad9dad0-32be-4290-a423-e42b3bc5f430.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/nicee46/media/Maintenance%20and%20Misc/aad9dad0-32be-4290-a423-e42b3bc5f430.jpg.html)

[derbo]

135i would be nice. 1M...:drool oops i thought i read 60k ;)

[yura]

No.

<snip>

That's... shocking! Never would have guessed. Hmm...

[yura]

Check this thing out: 44k miles, M Tech II body kit, Wagon, Red, Natural Brown Leather, SMG: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=98281&endYear=2005&modelCode1=3_SERIES&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=72505&startYear=2002&makeCode1=BMW&firstRecord=26&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&bodyStyleCodes=WAGON&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B3_SERIES%5B%5D%5D%5D&listingId=306275631&listingIndex=14&Log=0

[danewilson77]

Check this thing out: 44k miles, M Tech II body kit, Wagon, Red, Natural Brown Leather, SMG: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=98281&endYear=2005&modelCode1=3_SERIES&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=72505&startYear=2002&makeCode1=BMW&firstRecord=26&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&bodyStyleCodes=WAGON&mmt=%5BBMW%5B%5D%5B3_SERIES%5B%5D%5D%5D&listingId=306275631&listingIndex=14&Log=0

Cool car. Begging for 18's though.

[yura]

Cool car. Begging for 18's though.

For sure. The BBS CKs you have would be great on it.

And for the record, if I do end up going the "stock" ZHP route, I'm making a clone of your car! :hi

[danewilson77]

For sure. The BBS CKs you have would be great on it.

And for the record, if I do end up going the "stock" ZHP route, I'm making a clone of your car! :hi

Hehe.....Thanks K.

[Tnhl1989]

For me.... E46 ///M :thumbsup

That's what I would do and keep the ZHP as my daily....what I currently have ;)

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD using Tapatalk 2

I would do the same :)


Here is how I justify the cost of owning, maintaining, fixing a used, out-of-warranty BMW over a comparably priced new vehicle: Say you put the same money to work on a very practical 2013 Honda Accord - I'm sure you can get a new LX for very close to $20k all-in. You have a wonderful, nice to look at, good ride quality, runs like an appliance, etc. However, you want to sell it a year later, you'll be lucky to get $15k for it.

You buy a $15k zhp, put $1k-$2k into it during year 1. Chances are, it will be worth $14k to $15k a year later. Which car was more expensive to own?

Comparing a ZHP to other used cars - not much else will match the driving enjoyment to dollar ratio of a ZHP. They are pretty much fully depreciated, they are good on gas, they are safe, they are still better looking than 95% of cars on the road today, and they are a blast to drive! The maintenance quirks are more than worth it!

Edit:
Jeff's post hit while I was typing my response. I'm asking myself as I was typing the above: "why am I selling my zhp?"

Totally agree with the idea of buying a use car and the value of it doesn't drop much in comparison to buying a new car. Right out of the lot it drops a easy 3k for any car that was just purchased.

[az3579]

I would buy an older car like a ZHP and put the rest of the money into making it like brand new. Completely new suspension, mounts, cooling, etc., then spend whatever is left over (if there is $$ left over) on new interior bits like trim, consoles, pillars, etc.

Then you have a like-new car that is kickass in every way and is a lot more reliable than any 335i or M3 you can buy for that 20k.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[Dave_B]

Having recently been in a 135 (Thanks David!) I can say it's not nearly as small as I thought. Even a little room in the back seats.

If it were me, and I had owned previous BMW's, I'd seriously consider the ///M

[Torxuvin]

For absolute fun, your best bets for the $$$ IMO:
E46 M3
C5 Corvette/Z06

For fun/practical:
ZHP
G8 GT
335I

Wild Card:
Porsche 996

All are going to have maintenance costs being older. The only new cars I would consider under 30k are the FRS/BRZ or the Ford Focus ST. Unfortunately I believe that both are way overpriced. There is nothing decent under 20 anymore.

Side Note: I like driving the 135, but I could never own one. I just can't get over the looks. (no offense e82 Owners)

[Mtnman]

Yeah, well screw you Cam! (No offense Cam) :biggrin

[yura]

Hahaha. To be honest, I'm also not sold on the 1-series looks. Something just seems "off."

One car I forgot to mention as a possible candidate is the E39 M5. Plenty of power, good handling, and four doors! Might just be the best of all worlds? Will need to do more research and (hopefully) drive one.

[ranger]

Well. faced with this decision a few months ago after my ZHP was totalled, I bought a 2006 Mercedes C55 (and had $4,000 left over).

[yura]

Well. faced with this decision a few months ago after my ZHP was totalled, I bought a 2006 Mercedes C55 (and had $4,000 left over).

I've got an '06 C230 right now. Not loving it at all. Not the same car, of course, but the next car will definitely be a BMW again.

[Johal E32]

-used 2011 or 2012 VW GTI for practicality.
-If I start to crave wagons again, I would get a Volvo V70R, 300HP, 6 speed stick, and they look like sex on wheels. Oh my.
http://cdn2.carsdata.net/pics/Volvo/volvo-v70-r-04.jpg
OR
-Audi B7 S4 for even more fun. :drool

No more BMW's for me. I am done with them :/ Already had 10 of them in my family, time for a new brand. LOL

[KevinC]

Holy carp that's a clean '05 S5 in the ad on page 1! I almost bought one almost exactly like it in mid '05. I really liked the S5 - until I finally drove one, and then was hugely disappointed. I lusted after its 340 hp V8, but the damn thing is such a freaking barge, that it felt lifeless. Gas mileage is horrendous. And the car stickered for near $60k. Now he's only asking $18k, clean as that thing is, and as well maintained as he claims? That's CRAZY depreciation!

I'll go along with the consensus and suggest a ZHP. If you go with the max budget of $20k, and shop carefully, you'll occasionally find a low mileage peach out there that's worth paying top dollar for. Good luck!

[yura]

GTI is actually a somewhat interesting idea... I wonder how they are for space... And I hope they can tow decently well...

[gr330zhp]

i'd keep my ZHP and then get one of two cars

Something about a 964...
http://files.vau-max.de/images/2010/07/46_porsche_964_carrera_2_boxermotor_tuning_bilder_ umbau_kw_964_rs_cup_gt_gt3_motorsport.jpg

or

The. Legend.
http://www.wheelindustry.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/BMW-E30-M3-White-BBS-RS-Gold-a.jpg

$20k wouldn't get you perfect examples of either, but restoring them would be the best part! :thumbup

[cakM3]

... No more BMW's for me. I am done with them :/ Already had 10 of them in my family, time for a new brand. LOL

sorry to hear this...

[wertyu78]

MK6 VW Golf TDI. Scion FR-S. E46 M3.

[gr330zhp]

MK6 VW Golf TDI. Scion FR-S. E46 M3.

Very good choices! My friend bought Mk6 Jetta TDI last month, has loaded 5k miles on it already and gets close to 60mpg on a daily basis and has lots of torque, 6 speed, leather, Nav and all the toys


Sent from my iPhone 5.

[wertyu78]

Very good choices! My friend bought Mk6 Jetta TDI last month, has loaded 5k miles on it already and gets close to 60mpg on a daily basis and has lots of torque, 6 speed, leather, Nav and all the toys


Sent from my iPhone 5.

Indeed! The only dubs I would one will be diesel or air-cooled. The rest IMHO are garbage for the most part. With exception of MKii and older. I'm actually picking up a mkii tomorrow to dd. I have to re-tap the threads in my block and use arp head studs now that the block threads have lifted... Yay

[gr330zhp]

Indeed! The only dubs I would one will be diesel or air-cooled. The rest IMHO are garbage for the most part. With exception of MKii and older. I'm actually picking up a mkii tomorrow to dd. I have to re-tap the threads in my block and use arp head studs now that the block threads have lifted... Yay

Yeah my MkIV had drove me away from VW. In 4 years, I had double the money in receipts than what I bought it for, and I didn't buy it cheap either...in other words thousands and thousands spent on repairs. Was a great/fun car after every major part was replaced, from turbo, to suspension components and eeeeverything in between. But still. Yeah. :shifty


Sent from my iPhone 5.

[Johal E32]

sorry to hear this...

The only BMW I will consider is a 335D since it has some power but it can still get good MPG. A used 335D is closer to the 31k range, so that is a bit out of the 20k budget, lol.

[E_Rak]

Personally I would go the Stuart route, find a nice cheap RWD wagon and do the S54 swap. But more realistically, a good example of a ZHP with some cash for maintenance/mods would suffice!

[az3579]

$20k wouldn't get you perfect examples of either, but restoring them would be the best part! :thumbup

Ha, nice try, Stathi. 20k won't even get you a piece of crap E30 M3. Lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

[webster]

The only BMW I will consider is a 335D since it has some power but it can still get good MPG. A used 335D is closer to the 31k range, so that is a bit out of the 20k budget, lol.

i really like the 335d's...crazy torque! and they come with the best looking OEM E9x wheels IMO. too bad they only were manufactured with the auto tranny.

[yura]

i really like the 335d's...crazy torque! and they come with the best looking OEM E9x wheels IMO. too bad they only were manufactured with the auto tranny.

With the shot gears of a diesel I can't see myself wanting anything but an auto.

The thing is, a gas 335i can be had for $20-23k, while the diesel models are usually $5-8k more expensive. You'd have to drive a lot to make up the difference in gas money. Plus, I hear diesels are more expensive to maintain...

[echo46]

No question in my mind. Get a badass E46 M.

[gr330zhp]

Ha, nice try, Stathi. 20k won't even get you a piece of crap E30 M3. Lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD

Haha oh no?? Lol

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=03104&endYear=1991&modelCode1=M3&showcaseOwnerId=621620&startYear=1988&makeCode1=BMW&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BBMW%5BM3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344437310&listingIndex=10&Log=0

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=03104&endYear=1991&modelCode1=M3&showcaseOwnerId=621620&startYear=1988&makeCode1=BMW&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BBMW%5BM3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344335131&listingIndex=11&Log=0

And that was just a quick search on autotrader. Add in forums and other sites, and they can be found

[cakM3]

No question in my mind. Get a badass E46 M.

I concur with this statement...

:like

[danewilson77]

Haha oh no?? Lol

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=03104&endYear=1991&modelCode1=M3&showcaseOwnerId=621620&startYear=1988&makeCode1=BMW&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BBMW%5BM3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344437310&listingIndex=10&Log=0

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=03104&endYear=1991&modelCode1=M3&showcaseOwnerId=621620&startYear=1988&makeCode1=BMW&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BBMW%5BM3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344335131&listingIndex=11&Log=0

And that was just a quick search on autotrader. Add in forums and other sites, and they can be found

Must both be pieces of crap :shifty

[gr330zhp]

Must both be pieces of crap :shifty

Oh I'm sure :shifty


Sent from my iPhone 5.

[BavarianZHP]

No question in my mind. Get a badass E46 M.

But need moar doors!!!!

[echo46]

OK, then get a perfect badass e46 ZHP Saloon!:)

[illirep]

That gray e30 M3 has been for sale for a while - I was tempted to make a trip to see it. Price is very attractive. But when a seller says: "Fresh Paint", I'm turned off. I assure you they didn't spend a proper $5k-$6k for a quality paint job to turn around and sell it at the bottom of the price range!

[echo46]

I agree, that might be a Pep Boys rattle can special.

[gr330zhp]

Again, those were just quick examples to make a point.


Sent from my iPhone 5.

[yura]

Looks like there are plenty of people who have done S54 -> non-M E46 transplants (even shops in NY that offer to do it for ~$6500 for the motor+tranny swap), but the general consensus is that doing it right will be a $$$ sinkhole. Beginning to think I might just go for a clean ZHP, swap in the M3 LSD and call it a day as far as serious modifications go. Not as much "powwwaaaa" as I would like, but may just be the golden middle as far as fun/reliability/practicality goes. The voice of reason & responsibility in me (what the?!) says that, and upgrades to braking/suspension is the better option.

[derbo]

I concur with this statement...

:like

X2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[cakM3]

OK, then get a perfect badass e46 ZHP Saloon!:)

I was thinking more of this when anyone mentions a perfect badass E46 Saloon :drool :drool :drool :drool

Jeppe's E46 M3 Saloon

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0006_zpsf0f2c043.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0025_zps1d8cc931.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0014_zps22612e72.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0019_zps85a6ba3e.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0137_zpsbc745309.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0077_zps12377e2e.jpg

His attention to detail is off the charts....to me this is the car I envision of the perfect BMW E46 M3 Saloon :drool There are alot of nice sedans that have the M3 drive train in them and they are nice but this one is at a whole different level :thumbsup

[Crickett]

Looks like there are plenty of people who have done S54 -> non-M E46 transplants (even shops in NY that offer to do it for ~$6500 for the motor+tranny swap), but the general consensus is that doing it right will be a $$$ sinkhole. Beginning to think I might just go for a clean ZHP, swap in the M3 LSD and call it a day as far as serious modifications go. Not as much "powwwaaaa" as I would like, but may just be the golden middle as far as fun/reliability/practicality goes. The voice of reason & responsibility in me (what the?!) says that, and upgrades to braking/suspension is the better option.

Ding ding ding! We have a winnnnnaaaahhhhh! This is precisely what I plan to do (someday . . . ) to my ZHP. Don't get me wrong, I'll still daydream all day long about a beautiful E46 ZCP M3 in Imola, but for me, back in the real world, you can have a lot of fun in a car with good suspension mods (+ LSD for us RWD'rs) before you need to think about bumpin' up the horsies.

[derbo]

Looks like there are plenty of people who have done S54 -> non-M E46 transplants (even shops in NY that offer to do it for ~$6500 for the motor+tranny swap), but the general consensus is that doing it right will be a $$$ sinkhole. Beginning to think I might just go for a clean ZHP, swap in the M3 LSD and call it a day as far as serious modifications go. Not as much "powwwaaaa" as I would like, but may just be the golden middle as far as fun/reliability/practicality goes. The voice of reason & responsibility in me (what the?!) says that, and upgrades to braking/suspension is the better option.

Sounds like what I have exactly right now. Suspension/Brakes/LSD/Rims. I am getting more comfortable with the HP and looking to up it some more.

You are right about the swap being not too bad. The easiest way to do the swap is to get a complete donor m3 to swap it all out from. I've been actively looking for a donor vehicle. :eeps





FRS is nowhere near 20k..its closer to 29+ after taxes/finance (if you are not paying in full)

[cakM3]

Ding ding ding! We have a winnnnnaaaahhhhh! This is precisely what I plan to do (someday . . . ) to my ZHP. Don't get me wrong, I'll still daydream all day long about a beautiful E46 ZCP M3 in Imola, but for me, back in the real world, you can have a lot of fun in a car with good suspension mods (+ LSD for us RWD'rs) before you need to think about bumpin' up the horsies.

Travis, I have been thinking the same exact thing....rather than get an ///M vert, I would rather convert my ZHP like Jeppe did.... but that's dreaming...:)

I do have an ///M in excellent condition.............. and a ZHP.............hmmmmmm ;)

[Crickett]

Travis, I have been thinking the same exact thing....rather than get an ///M vert, I would rather convert my ZHP like Jeppe did.... but that's dreaming...:)

I do have an ///M in excellent condition.............. and a ZHP.............hmmmmmm ;)

There's your answer: combine the two best E46s BMW ever made – since you're a lucky SOB who owns one of each – & make the ÜBER-über Driving Machine!! :roundel :rockon

[yura]

Sounds like what I have exactly right now. Suspension/Brakes/LSD/Rims. I am getting more comfortable with the HP and looking to up it some more.

You are right about the swap being not too bad. The easiest way to do the swap is to get a complete donor m3 to swap it all out from. I've been actively looking for a donor vehicle. :eeps


Heh, I was just flipping through your build thread - great stuff in there, I love the mods you've done. I'm also thoroughly jealous that you have so many race tracks so close. Thunderhill is a 16 hour drive for me... and I've done it, and will do it again, but it takes some serious effort.

And yes, I'm in the same school of through - if the full S54 swap is to be done, I need a complete M3 donor vehicle; sourcing individual parts will be a very long nightmare.

[derbo]

There's your answer: combine the two best E46s BMW ever made – since you're a lucky SOB who owns one of each – & make the ÜBER-über Driving Machine!! :roundel :rockon

then convert the M3 to an S85 powered beast =O

[Avetiso]

I was thinking more of this when anyone mentions a perfect badass E46 Saloon :drool :drool :drool :drool

Jeppe's E46 M3 Saloon

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0006_zpsf0f2c043.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0025_zps1d8cc931.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0014_zps22612e72.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0019_zps85a6ba3e.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0137_zpsbc745309.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0077_zps12377e2e.jpg

His attention to detail is off the charts....to me this is the car I envision of the perfect BMW E46 M3 Saloon :drool There are alot of nice sedans that have the M3 drive train in them and they are nice but this one is at a whole different level :thumbsup

Talk about money to blow! Wow. Damn good job, though! Nice to see Northern Europeans doing something useful during the 5 days a week they spend not working. :rofl

[Hermes]

I could do a hell of a lot with $20k

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jhermes/F2A7B2B6-D922-4945-B9C1-DC37A7B85D97-128-000000058DE9B404_zpsfa60f22a.jpg

[ranger]

I've got an '06 C230 right now. Not loving it at all. Not the same car, of course, but the next car will definitely be a BMW again.

360+ HP covers a lot of flaws.........

[Dave_B]

I was thinking more of this when anyone mentions a perfect badass E46 Saloon :drool :drool :drool :drool

Jeppe's E46 M3 Saloon

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0006_zpsf0f2c043.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0025_zps1d8cc931.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0014_zps22612e72.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0019_zps85a6ba3e.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0137_zpsbc745309.jpg

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0077_zps12377e2e.jpg

His attention to detail is off the charts....to me this is the car I envision of the perfect BMW E46 M3 Saloon :drool There are alot of nice sedans that have the M3 drive train in them and they are nice but this one is at a whole different level :thumbsup

Oh DAMN I'm green with ENVY!!! That is EXACTLY what I wanted when I started looking for BMW's. Too damn bad they didn't make them in the E46 chassis.

[cakM3]

I have a good friend who parts wrecked ///M's and he had approached me with a restoration project where he would help me rebuild an ///M vert. After seeing this thread and seeing where it has gone.... I think what I'll be doing in a few years when my daughter has finished college is to build my E46 ///M sedan exactly like jeppe has done here. I have copied his entire project thread and plan to use this as a template for what I will be doing to my ZHP when that time comes. Since I will have access to wrecked ///M's I can see myself doing this instead of buying another car....:thumbsup

What better way to have a stable than my ///M coupe and sedan? ;)

[Crickett]

I have a good friend who parts wrecked ///M's and he had approached me with a restoration project where he would help me rebuild an ///M vert. After seeing this thread and seeing where it has gone.... I think what I'll be doing in a few years when my daughter has finished college is to build my E46 ///M sedan exactly like jeppe has done here. I have copied his entire project thread and plan to use this as a template for what I will be doing to my ZHP when that time comes. Since I will have access to wrecked ///M's I can see myself doing this instead of buying another car....:thumbsup

What better way to have a stable than my ///M coupe and sedan? ;)

:jawdrop

So. Insanely. AWESOME.

[cakM3]

that's the plan Travis.....in the meantime, I'm looking to supercharge the ///M this year if everything works out and I don't have to worry about getting furloughed again.....being furloughed really sucked...

sorry to threadjack kerunt....to be honest if you really want to grab a very nice condition ZHP then I say go for it... especially since you're looking for 4 doors :thumbsup These cars as you know are getting rarer and are still awesome to drive on a daily basis...I really enjoy driving mine and couldn't be happier :) Then depending on how much you spent on one, you might have just enough to get an ESS TS2 to cap it off....man would that make for one awesome ZHP! :thumbsup

[yura]

No worries, derail as much as you want - I enjoy reading people's thoughts.

The idea of super- or turbo-charging has crossed my mind... something I'd have to seriously compare the pros/cons of (as opposed to an S54 swap) whenever I do pick up a ZHP.

[derbo]

No worries, derail as much as you want - I enjoy reading people's thoughts.

The idea of super- or turbo-charging has crossed my mind... something I'd have to seriously compare the pros/cons of (as opposed to an S54 swap) whenever I do pick up a ZHP.

S54 is major intensive. There is a lot of work to do the swap. Lot of parts that are m specific. Even the fuel lines and fuel pump would be considered different.

Pros.
S54 reliable.
NA power.

Cons.
Lots of work to swap.
The cost of maintenance now follows an M3 schedule.


Supercharger/turbocharging.

Te problem is you are adding extra stress to the engine. Extra components mean more to break and would have to consider more modifications to maintain a good setup during track days.

Pros.
Easy installation compared to s54
Power
Engine noises

Cons.
Expensive still
Adds extra strain to engine.

Oh course this is all my opinion. I would love to sc the zhp but very curious how it will stay cool during track days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[yura]

That's good info, derbo, thanks. Extra strain / reliability issues is my #1 concern with any FI, and it doesn't help that all my friends (who used to be very seriously into the tuning/modification scene locally - one still has his '94 Twin Turbo Supra, the other a '98 or so Turbo Eclipse, the third used to own Skylines) are unanimously against the idea of doing any super/turbo charging on a car that didn't come with FI from the manufacturer (due to reliability problems).

Either way, this is all good food for thought, and will help when it comes time to actually take the plunge and sign on the dotted line.

[derbo]

I had a turbo civic. Tuned it properly, blew it up racing. Rebuild the engine with forged internals, retuned and blew it up again racing. :)

I know its comparing apples n bananas, but extra strain can be a concern especially if you do racing. If not, it doesnt really matter too much since it's not constantly getting pushed to the limits.


A zhp + the remaining cash can get you a good starting point for an amazing car.

IMO

buy a ZHP. 10-15k
buy suspension 2K
buy rims/tires 1k
misc maintenance 2k

You will have yourself a solid car ready for your abuse :) It's a rough estimate but its more of less the route I would take again.

[yura]

The thing is that I don't track my car(s), and realistically, doubt I ever will. I like to have fun on quiet twisty roads, but that rarely happens, too.

I think a well set-up ZHP will be a good, practical daily driver. I might "settle" for the 2-door E46 M, too. Who knows... :)

[az3579]

Haha oh no?? Lol

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=03104&endYear=1991&modelCode1=M3&showcaseOwnerId=621620&startYear=1988&makeCode1=BMW&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BBMW%5BM3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344437310&listingIndex=10&Log=0

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=03104&endYear=1991&modelCode1=M3&showcaseOwnerId=621620&startYear=1988&makeCode1=BMW&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=0&mmt=%5BBMW%5BM3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=344335131&listingIndex=11&Log=0

And that was just a quick search on autotrader. Add in forums and other sites, and they can be found

Values really seem to have plummeted then. It was not too long ago that you couldn't have a decent one for less than 25k. Trust me, I've looked; my brother was looking at buying a crappy one to fix up but then we gave up after not finding any "beater" ones for less than $20k.

Recently I've seen ones with 40k miles and 70k miles in the 40's and 30's respectively for price.

[gr330zhp]

Values really seem to have plummeted then. It was not too long ago that you couldn't have a decent one for less than 25k. Trust me, I've looked; my brother was looking at buying a crappy one to fix up but then we gave up after not finding any "beater" ones for less than $20k.

Recently I've seen ones with 40k miles and 70k miles in the 40's and 30's respectively for price.

It really depends on the owner of the car, and how much they know about what they own. Even a little while ago, you could find them for $20k just had to search. My friend bought a really nice 91 M3 2 years ago, Alpine White/Black with right around 100k in good shape for right around there. Though his OCD lead him to completely restore it from ground up, paint the right way, rebuilt the S14, etc etc. Even replaced the new windshield with an all new OE windshield. I cant wait to find one! :)


Sent from my iPhone 5.

[onepercent]

This is just drop dead sexy. Why couldn't BMW have offered this!!??!?!

I could see myself building an M3 Touring or M5 Touring, somewhere down the road.


I was thinking more of this when anyone mentions a perfect badass E46 Saloon :drool :drool :drool :drool

Jeppe's E46 M3 Saloon

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/macdctr/M3%20Saloon/DSC_0006_zpsf0f2c043.jpg


His attention to detail is off the charts....to me this is the car I envision of the perfect BMW E46 M3 Saloon :drool There are alot of nice sedans that have the M3 drive train in them and they are nice but this one is at a whole different level :thumbsup

[zhpnsnv]

20K for another car? I'd probably research some S54 M-Coupes (the dork - the bread van - the clown shoe). Then I'd never drive it.

[danewilson77]

20K for another car? I'd probably research some S54 M-Coupes (the dork - the bread van - the clown shoe). Then I'd never drive it.

Love those.

HTC DNA, Williamsburg, VA

[az3579]

It really depends on the owner of the car, and how much they know about what they own. Even a little while ago, you could find them for $20k just had to search. My friend bought a really nice 91 M3 2 years ago, Alpine White/Black with right around 100k in good shape for right around there. Though his OCD lead him to completely restore it from ground up, paint the right way, rebuilt the S14, etc etc. Even replaced the new windshield with an all new OE windshield. I cant wait to find one! :)


Sent from my iPhone 5.

And there goes an average annual salary. lol

[gr330zhp]

And there goes an average annual salary. lol

And then some...lol


Sent from my iPhone 5.