Buffer and backing plate recommendations?

[ELCID86]

Leaning towards a Porter Cable 7424XP Random Orbital Buffer. Any recommendations on size of backing plates (6" and 4" or 3" perhaps)? Pads: Lake Country Red, Orange Blue? Thanks.

[kayger12]

I went with the PC and have been happy with it. I originally bought the 6" backer but found it to be too big and ended up switching to a 4.

Lots of great info here http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-Detailing-Guide/

[ELCID86]

THanks. So you just use the 4" all over? I was thinking a bigger and smaller one may be the right setup for panels and tighter spots.

[kayger12]

I had the same train of thought initially.

I think it was Kyle (Monk3y) who told me that the smaller pads get better results. I can't remember what the exact reason was, but I know he knows his detailing and trusted his advice on that.

[JupiterBMW]

Can we get a little more chat on this topic going? More specifically, lets discuss the different options out there.

Porter 7424XP (or another model? this just seems to be the one most people get)
Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital?

Other brands?

My el cheapo 6" buffer died on me (after many years of solid service, so I can't complain), and I'm wondering if I should step up to one of these high dollar units...

And if I should step up to one of these high dollar buffers... WHY? Thanks in advance for the advice!

[JupiterBMW]

And just for reference... This is the Walmart variety buffer I had...

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/W006B.aspx

[ELCID86]

I'd also like to hear about pads that are prefered. I have these in mind: Lake Country Hydro-Tech 4 x 1.25 Inch Foam Pads 1) Cyan Advanced Cutting Foam, 2)
Tangerine Ultra Polishing Foam , 3) Crimson Finishing Foam

[JupiterBMW]

Sure, lets talk pads too... Why does everyone like foam and not the terry cloth or microfiber? What's the consensus?

[M0nk3y]

Porter Cable and Griots and Meguiars Random Orbitals are really all the same. I'm going on around 5 years since my PC purchase and it is in tip top shape.

For the backing plate, I use a Meguiars Backing Plate that has a foam medium. I can't remember the name but I know it is on detailedimage and other sites. That is a good backing plate because it applies even pressure to the pad, which helps eliminate marring and other defects caused by uneven pressure. These problems are more often seen in rotarys, not orbitals, but regardless, I like them.

As for pads, the general consensus is that for a Random Orbital a smaller pad is better. It is kind of toss up between a 5" and 4" pad. Personally I would go 4" if possible. It is limited returns if you go any smaller, as you'll have to spend alot more time on each panel. Anyways since the PC is not forced rotation, a smaller pad will thus spin faster, and yield better correction.

This is flip flopped on a rotary, as the larger pad you go, the more correction you'll achieve.

As for type of pads, it really all depends on the compounds. There is never one set formula I can tell you (but generally it works for most BMWs). Different cars in different climates with different conditions will vary on polish/pad combo.

As I don't know what polishes you are using, it'll be tough to recommend something. I have not done much research on microfiber pads, but I've heard they are starting to become more popular, especially with the packages Meguiars is throwing together.

Typically, for standard polishes it will be LCC Orange and White, or Hydro Cyan and Tangerine. This would be for a 2 step polish, obviously.

Hopefully this helps, I'll only be available until tomorrow, after that I'll be unavailable for 2 weeks, as I'm currently in Barcelona and going to be sailing the Mediterranean coast.

Adios¡


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[ryankokesh]

Dude, you sent that from your phone... Someone buy this guy a beer! :ineedabeer

Edit: just read the last sentence. You suck, sir.

[kayger12]

Porter Cable and Griots and Meguiars Random Orbitals are really all the same. I'm going on around 5 years since my PC purchase and it is in tip top shape.

For the backing plate, I use a Meguiars Backing Plate that has a foam medium. I can't remember the name but I know it is on detailedimage and other sites. That is a good backing plate because it applies even pressure to the pad, which helps eliminate marring and other defects caused by uneven pressure. These problems are more often seen in rotarys, not orbitals, but regardless, I like them.

As for pads, the general consensus is that for a Random Orbital a smaller pad is better. It is kind of toss up between a 5" and 4" pad. Personally I would go 4" if possible. It is limited returns if you go any smaller, as you'll have to spend alot more time on each panel. Anyways since the PC is not forced rotation, a smaller pad will thus spin faster, and yield better correction.

This is flip flopped on a rotary, as the larger pad you go, the more correction you'll achieve.

As for type of pads, it really all depends on the compounds. There is never one set formula I can tell you (but generally it works for most BMWs). Different cars in different climates with different conditions will vary on polish/pad combo.

As I don't know what polishes you are using, it'll be tough to recommend something. I have not done much research on microfiber pads, but I've heard they are starting to become more popular, especially with the packages Meguiars is throwing together.

Typically, for standard polishes it will be LCC Orange and White, or Hydro Cyan and Tangerine. This would be for a 2 step polish, obviously.

Hopefully this helps, I'll only be available until tomorrow, after that I'll be unavailable for 2 weeks, as I'm currently in Barcelona and going to be sailing the Mediterranean coast.

Adios¡


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Great info-- ESPECIALLY from vaca!

Have a great trip.

[ELCID86]

I'm really confused as to what I need to do--polish, seal, wax... How often do any of you do any of these?

[kayger12]

I clay, polish, and seal twice a year.

I wax every 4-8 weeks.

Sent from the Last Next Best Thing.

[JupiterBMW]

I clay, polish, and seal twice a year.

I wax every 4-8 weeks.

Sent from the Last Next Best Thing.

Clay I understand...

But regarding polish... Is it really necessary if the top layer (wax or sealant) is kept up really nicely? I thought polish was only for swirl marks and haze? If you keep the car in good shape and do a finish coat of wax every 4-8 weeks, continual polish really isn't needed is it? I always thought polish was more in the "correction" side of things...?

Sealant is just as it sounds correct? It has to be cured for 12-24 hours afterward, correct for the polymers to bond and truly seal right?

And then wax is essentially just glossifier if I recall... I have to go look at my products again. Ugh...

[kayger12]

No matter how much I keep up with the wax, I always seem to get a little scratch here or mark there.

I only use a very light finishing polish as my car has never had more than light surface scratches.

Overdoing the polish is a valid concern, though. Every time you polish you're removing a bit of the clear coat. I skipped the spring polish this year and will probably just wait for the late fall this time.

Ultimately, I think you're right. I could probably get away with once every year or two with little difference.


Sent from the Last Next Best Thing.

[zhpnsnv]

Clay I understand...

But regarding polish... Is it really necessary if the top layer (wax or sealant) is kept up really nicely? I thought polish was only for swirl marks and haze? If you keep the car in good shape and do a finish coat of wax every 4-8 weeks, continual polish really isn't needed is it? I always thought polish was more in the "correction" side of things...?

Sealant is just as it sounds correct? It has to be cured for 12-24 hours afterward, correct for the polymers to bond and truly seal right?

And then wax is essentially just glossifier if I recall... I have to go look at my products again. Ugh...

Depending on the color of your car, you will incur marring in everyday life/washing/driving/getting in and out, so a polish once or twice a year is usually needed if you're particularly anal about your car's finish. I have an AW car in my family -- it is damn difficult to see micro-marring or even light swirls. I have to get the car in the right sun and put my face at the just right angle to let the reflection blind me for a second, then as my eyesight comes back, I might be able to make out a swirl or three. If I had AW, I'd probably not polish as much as I did on my IR. Claying will cause the marring that then requires polishing. Even waxing every 4-8 weeks causes swirls since there will always be dust and other things in between the cloth and the paint. You're right that polish is the "correction" side of things. It's also to ensure a smooth, even surface to put on your wax/sealant to help it last as long as possible.

[Washburn]

for my AW car the plan I have is wash, MILD polish, then sealant, and then an LSP/QD on top of sealant IF i need extra gloss (but it's AW, so idk how much of a difference that LSP would make).
After that, between washes, I will just use the LSP/QD to keep the finish up, until it's time to polish and seal procedure again.
(With the specific polish and sealant I have in mind, it should only be required every year or so but I might do it every 8 months or so).

[DetailersDomain]

Leaning towards a Porter Cable 7424XP Random Orbital Buffer. Any recommendations on size of backing plates (6" and 4" or 3" perhaps)? Pads: Lake Country Red, Orange Blue? Thanks.

take a look at this kit, it's proven and we have been using this combo for quite sometime.

the PC is a bit outdated if you want to pick up something current at a great price pick up the Griots machine.

Griot's Swirl Remover Kit (http://www.detailersdomain.com/Griots-Garage-6-inch-Random-Orbital-Polisher-Swirl-Remover-Kit_p_704.html)

[ELCID86]

^ Can you explain why the PC is "outdated" and why the Griot's is worth that much more? Also interested on your thoughts on 6" backing plate Vs. 4". Thanks.

[jgt_zhp]

I just ordered the Griot's "Plus Kit" from Phil. It's on sale for $199. Using their Memorial Day coupon code, and their Memorial Day $8.88 flat shipping offer, the Griot's machine with the 5" vented backing plate and 10 pads was $178 shipped. That's more than competitive with the prices I've been pulling on PCs.

[ELCID86]

I just ordered the Griot's "Plus Kit" from Phil. It's on sale for $199. Using their Memorial Day coupon code, and their Memorial Day $8.88 flat shipping offer, the Griot's machine with the 5" vented backing plate and 10 pads was $178 shipped. That's more than competitive with the prices I've been pulling on PCs. Good idea. What color pads did you go with? Not sure I need the yellow.

[jgt_zhp]

I think the same way. I went with no yellows, and bumped up the blues and blacks. Not planning on a lot of heavy paint correction.

[DetailersDomain]

^ Can you explain why the PC is "outdated" and why the Griot's is worth that much more? Also interested on your thoughts on 6" backing plate Vs. 4". Thanks.

sure thing for the same list price which is I believe $139.95.

the Griots has more power and a lifetime warranty against mfg defects, the 3rd gen is also easy to handle as the base is more fit for most hands. The PC is bulky.

I prefer to use 5 inch pads over 6 because we get more precise corrections, 4 inch and 3 inch pads are great for tight spots and spot correction.

I have not touched our PC in our shop now for 2 years. We use it to demo how much weaker it is over the Griots.

[ELCID86]

If you can deal with this guys personality (and rambling) he has some good info. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-eAddv2sk

[ryankokesh]

I've been super happy with the PC. Accidentally backed over it with a car once and it still looks and works like its brand new.


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[Washburn]

sure thing for the same list price which is I believe $139.95.

the Griots has more power and a lifetime warranty against mfg defects, the 3rd gen is also easy to handle as the base is more fit for most hands. The PC is bulky.

I prefer to use 5 inch pads over 6 because we get more precise corrections, 4 inch and 3 inch pads are great for tight spots and spot correction.

I have not touched our PC in our shop now for 2 years. We use it to demo how much weaker it is over the Griots.

Also, I THINK the GG comes with the hook/loop 6" backing plate, right? PC doesn't - you have to buy it separately.
(correct me if I am wrong, pls)

[M0nk3y]

I've been super happy with the PC. Accidentally backed over it with a car once and it still looks and works like its brand new.


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Yea, I once again I've had my PC for like 4-5 years and its fine.

The XP version has more power than the typical one, which I own but in the scheme of things the differences amount all the brands are negligible.




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[JupiterBMW]

Also, I THINK the GG comes with the hook/loop 6" backing plate, right? PC doesn't - you have to buy it separately.
(correct me if I am wrong, pls)

Yes, the GG comes with a 6" backing plate. I opted for a 5" backing plate so that I could run slightly smaller pads. It looks really nice, perhaps I'll get to use it soon. :eeps

[Washburn]

nice - I ordered the 3" plate ...with 3 pack 3" orange GG pads..
and got 4 of 6.5" lake county CCS white pads
Now I only need the actual GG buffer :eeps:

[ELCID86]

Polishing & Buffing Pads - Choosing The Correct Polishing Pad - Chemical Guys CAR CARE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFnmfn9mwYc

[ELCID86]

25% off buffers! Autogeek affiliate link = http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-4193730-10696244
Happy Father's day to me!

[Washburn]

I just got the Griots 6 inch for $119!
use coupon code 'ship50' to get free shipping - it worked for me !

[jgt_zhp]

Excellent. With all these new buffers in the family, the shine from the ZHP fleet should be easily visible from space

[ELCID86]

I just got the Griots 6 inch for $119!
That's the plan!


use coupon code 'ship50' to get free shipping - it worked for me !
Thanks even better!

[Washburn]

Excellent. With all these new buffers in the family, the shine from the ZHP fleet should be easily visible from space

LOL!:like

[ELCID86]

All Buffers On Sale with Free Shipping Over $149

All Buffers On Sale with Free Shipping Over $149 @ Detailed Image (http://www.detailedimage.com/Sales/Buffer-Sale-SP103/)

[ClimRox]

Raising this thread from the dead... I think it is time for me to get up to speed on polishers, etc. as my car is in need of some paint correction including some light dullness/fading on top of the bumpers from what I can only assume is from the car living in FL for 11 years. FWIW I'm new to car detailing beyond hand waxing in days gone by.

1.) Are there any new opinions on the Griots vs. Porter Cable 7424XP polishers? Any good deals on either that are known currently?

2.) What do the counterweights sold for the PC do, and are counterweights a consideration for the Griots as well?

3.) Does it make sense to get smaller (4" or 5") Lake Country backing plates for whichever polisher I choose?

4.) I think I'll circle back to pads and products after I determine the polisher, but is there anything else I should consider in preparing to learn detailing?

[ELCID86]

I have a PC. I fact I used it today on some scratches on the trunk where the PO had mounted a SiriusXm antenna.
I like the polisher. I'd definitely go with 4" plate and pads as the larger ones are hard to work with on smaller areas. I went with that size today on the boot lid.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[DetailersDomain]

Raising this thread from the dead... I think it is time for me to get up to speed on polishers, etc. as my car is in need of some paint correction including some light dullness/fading on top of the bumpers from what I can only assume is from the car living in FL for 11 years. FWIW I'm new to car detailing beyond hand waxing in days gone by.

1.) Are there any new opinions on the Griots vs. Porter Cable 7424XP polishers? Any good deals on either that are known currently?

We will be running a special as well as putting some new kits up on the site shortly

2.) What do the counterweights sold for the PC do, and are counterweights a consideration for the Griots as well?

No need for the counterweight on the Griot's it is set up for the 6 inch and 5 inch machine.

3.) Does it make sense to get smaller (4" or 5") Lake Country backing plates for whichever polisher I choose?

Yes it will make sense to get a 3 inch bp for the 4 inch pads.

4.) I think I'll circle back to pads and products after I determine the polisher, but is there anything else I should consider in preparing to learn detailing?

Pick up the Griot's we stopped selling the PC's awhile ago - the Griots is backed by a lifetime warranty against factory defects, and it has more power.

[ClimRox]

Thanks for the replies! I'll keep an eye out for the upcoming special, and I'll post up here or in another thread when I have my arms wrapped around the products I'll need.

Is it a general rule that the bp is 1" smaller than the pad?

Any other opinions on polishers or products is certainly welcome.

Thanks again


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[ClimRox]

I picked up a Griot's polisher today from DetailersDomain. Bump for the question above. Also - recommendations on a sealant please!

[DetailersDomain]

I picked up a Griot's polisher today from DetailersDomain. Bump for the question above. Also - recommendations on a sealant please!

thanks for the order.

sealant to consider

Sonax Polymer Net Shield (https://www.detailersdomain.com/products/sonax-polymer-net-shield-1)
Nanolex Spray Sealant (https://www.detailersdomain.com/products/nanolex-spray-sealant-200ml)
Menzerna Power Lock (https://www.detailersdomain.com/collections/wax-seal-coating/products/menzerna-power-lock-sealant-16-oz)

[ELCID86]

Plate is not much smaller than pads.

24011

24012

Of and I do have Griot's!


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[ELCID86]

FYI

24013


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic

[ClimRox]

^ Thanks for the pictures!

[ELCID86]

^ Thanks for the pictures!

NP.


---
"ZHP is a garbage option anyway- just some cosmetic upgrades with a different cam and diff to claw back some of the performance lost fitting those hideous and heavy wheels. Any 330 with a 3.46 diff will smoke a ZHP every time. The whole Mafia thing reeks of childish behavior." - an e46fanatic