Sounds good. I believe you are going with these Sachs struts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapolis
317-541
317-542
That's different from mine:
Front Left = 290-949
Front Right =290-950
Hope things work out for you.
Sounds good. I believe you are going with these Sachs struts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapolis
317-541
317-542
That's different from mine:
Front Left = 290-949
Front Right =290-950
Hope things work out for you.
Interesting, looks like Sachs has discontinued those as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by fredo
Attachment 37142
According to Sachs, the replacement for your new shocks is 317-539 and 317-540. I wonder what the difference is between those and the 317-541 and 317-542.
What's interesting is that 317-539 and 317-540 replace the 290-949 and 290-950 (Sachs Super Touring).
Attachment 37143
But the 317-541 and 317-542 replace 556-873 and 556-874 (Sachs Advantage).
Attachment 37144
That would suggest that they are different, but they do share the first three digits in their part numbers. This might suggest a certain similarity but I would have to ask Sachs to clarify for a clear answer.
Nevertheless, the part numbers are starting to make more sense. I might give the whole summary thing another shot soon and build on the first post of this thread.
I, for one, would be interested in another summary post of a budget friendly performance suspension setup.
I definitely want to amend the errors in the first post now that the past few weeks have uncovered new information. I'm leaning towards starting a new thread for that. I also want to present the information in a more reader-friendly table, and I've already been working on compiling links and part numbers. Hopefully I'll have that posted shortly after I install all my parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonin88
If you do make a new threat, post a link in the original post of this thread so people can find correct info!Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapolis
I finally got a chance to install everything this weekend. The process was pretty straightforward since this is like the 3rd time I've done the full suspension on this car (don't even ask). The only issue I had is that it was impossible to stack front the spring pads like I hoped. The spring seat always ended up crooked, so I just went back to the normal setup. Many thanks @ZHPizza who let me borrow his non-deadly spring compressor. Made the install so quick and easy.
I also used this opportunity to check for subrame mount cracks. My car is a Feb. 2004 unit, so no structural foam. The wheel well seams are all fine and the area around the subframe bushings is good too. I did have a medium sized crack at the left rear inner fold though, so it's definitely time for a reinforcement sooner than later.
Attachment 37204
As you can see my old setup was looking very sad. It has 35k miles and a lot of abuse behind it. Several Tail of the Dragon trips and other twisties, at least a dozen autocross events and a road trip through the deep south (some of those New Orleans potholes are endless pits), just to name a few.
Attachment 37203
Attachment 37196
The E36 M3 rears are thicker but surprisingly also slightly taller than the Konis. My old rubber RSMs were in good shape. I think they are Lemförder so those get a thumbs up from me. The Bimmerworld RSMs are definitely a nice step up though.
Attachment 37197
I also installed the rear reinforcement for the lower spring perch. Makes the rear a little taller than I'd like but those rear Eibach springs are crazy stiff compared to the H&Rs. Speaking of, holding both springs side-by-side for comparison really cemented my disdain for H&R. The Eibachs are basically half the weight. They are so light, the car must have lost at least 10lbs! It's hard to explain, but compressing the H&Rs feels "jittery." They just feel cheap in every aspect. The Eibachs on the other hand feel so nice and premium. I will definitely steer clear of all H&R products from now on. The Eibach spring rates are also interesting. The fronts are extremely soft, softer than the H&R fronts. The rears, like I mentioned, are extremely stiff, much stiffer than the H&R rears. I haven't pushed the car much yet but in theory this setup should drastically improve driving dynamics as the Eibach setup would favor oversteer, unlike the H&Rs which favor understeer.
Attachment 37198
Front strut with the shorter E36 M3 bump stop.
Attachment 37200
I installed the E36 M3 strut mounts correctly, so left side on the left and right side on the right. This should drastically increase caster and minimally increase negative camber. Supposedly, if you switch them left to right you can get up to -3° of camber, but I want to stick with caster since MacPherson struts benefit more from that. I might end up just getting some fixed Turner camber plates if I feel like I still need more camber.
Attachment 37201
The final ride height is so nice. Just compare that to the pic in my signature.
Attachment 37202
I'm getting an alignment tomorrow and I won't really push the car much with the crack, but comfort alone has increased so dramatically, it's like the car didn't even have suspension before. Now I can go over bumps and feel like something is dampening the impact. I can also put the car in first gear now without the whole body seesawing all over the place. It just behaves normally now. Probably quite unremarkable to most people here but compared to the absolute junk suspension I had before, this is a revelation. Whenever I used to hit bumps with the H&R and Koni combo, it felt like the car was crashing into the road. Literally the opposite of what suspension should be doing.
I did do a couple of hot laps just to get a feel for performance. The caster was most noticeable. It feels like the car becomes increasingly capable the more you turn in. Very different from what I'm used to. I usually have to dial back or feel like I'm getting closer and closer to the limit the more I steer. The overall setup is also considerably more responsive and no longer floaty.
All in all: :like
Sweet! I wonder what the Eibach and H&R spring rates are, compared to stock which I think is around ~180/380 lbs F/R. If the H&Rs don't maintain the front to rear ride frequency ratio same as stock then that would explain the pitching you seem to have, the fact that the rear Eibach springs are much stiffer than the front is a good sign. I haven't pushed mine but I'm at 440/550 lbs F/R and have a slight hint of pitch, but I haven't driven on really bad roads yet or really pushed it.
Also those E36 M3 strut top mounts look like a very nice option for a budget. That's a good amount of caster and camber by my best guess looks like -1.8 to -2.0 deg.
Nice! Looks like a much more useful ride-height, too. Looking forward to your impressions after alignment.
So what orange Konis were on there before? Are those the STR.Ts?
Never realized that was the reason for the extreme pitching but I guess it makes sense. Supposedly, the German Eibach Pro-Kit for E46 M3 is 155/375-750 lbs F/R. Not sure what that tells us about non-M but it was the only number I could find. German H&R for E46 M3 is 240/370 lbs F/R. Stock E36 M3 rates are 165/360 lbs F/R, so I think the E36 M3 rears are probably matched quite nicely to the non-M Pro Kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by t.er
I'm really happy with the E36 M3 mounts as well. Camber really depends on the ride height though, which I'll get to in a bit.
Yes they are STR.T. Honestly, they weren't half bad when I had the stock springs. And despite the abuse, they still mostly work to my utter surprise, so I put them up for sale along with the H&R springs. I'd like to be able to say the oranges are good for the price but boy do these Sachs shocks perform. The comfortable ride really just comes down to the fact that I have working suspension now. Outside of that, these babies are STIFF. They really feel more like what I'd imagine B8s or Yellows on max stiffness would feel like.Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCurves
I don't really have much to compare it to outside ZHPizza's car and my buddy's E46 M3 with ST X coilovers. The Sachs are definitely leagues above the FSDs in terms of stiffness. They are also considerably stiffer than the ST X. I was able to whip it around a little after the alignment and the body control and response is just mind blowing to me. Granted, even Super Tourings would have probably been a huge improvement over the worn oranges, but still. Really wish I could compare this setup directly to a ZHP with Koni Yellows, B8s or even just stock Super Tourings.
Here is the alignment sheet. Took it to a VW dealer since they have a Hunter machine and one of my friends knows a guy there.
Attachment 37207
Camber has basically stayed the same compared to the H&R setup, but my ride height is now a good deal higher, so I'd say camber gains were probably around the -0.5° mark. I'm happy with -2.1° of camber, but I was secretly hoping for either -2.5° or -2.8°. That being said, caster has increased tremendously from 5.2°/4.7° to 7.6°/7.3°. Roughly a 2.5° increase in caster. Very happy with that result. I decided to go for max performance, so about 1° less camber in the rear than front and my usual 0° front toe and 0.1° rear toe. I'm somewhat tempted to throw some Turner fixed camber plates onto the E36 M3 mounts, as that would both increase front ride height a little (there's still some rake) and increase camber (might even hit -3°), but I think the RACP reinforcement takes priority for now.