sounds like my car... high 80's to low 90's (Celsius) when stuck in traffic, high 70's to low 80's on the freeway.
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sounds like my car... high 80's to low 90's (Celsius) when stuck in traffic, high 70's to low 80's on the freeway.
Oli77: 96
Dane: 95
Telijah: 88
edlvrt: 96
MrMaico: 97
Spencers: 90
Livesnearcostco: 91
derbo: 95
GT172I: 96
shanneba: 89
Hochspannung: 87
Kayger12: 95
RITmusic2k: 83 (?)
I'd say you can change mine to 96C Oli. It's been that temp (205F) about 75 or 80% of the time since I got my Garmin EcoRoute OBDII Bluetooth setup about a year ago. Not sure why it was reading 97C that weekend I posted mine. Low outside air temps, down to upper 20's F anyway, don't drop the coolant temp at all. Never had it out in any colder weather. The only time it changes is if I'm running harder than normal and it drops 10 to 15 degrees F or if it's hot out (upper 80's or so OAT) with the a/c on. Then I've seen a max of 212F (100C).
Good idea starting the thread Oli. It's been both interesting and educational.
Barry
Thanks bud, I've been playing around with that thing for a while too. It's pretty dynamic and fun +, as you say, I learned a lot of stuff.
Just wish we had more input, we could get some cool graphics on the population of Mafiosis driving E46s. We could also find out about when or if the T-stats, water pumps, were changed etc...
Numbers are in Celsius once reached a plateau.
Oli77: 96
Dane: 95
Telijah: 88
edlvrt: 96
MrMaico: 96
Spencers: 90
Livesnearcostco: 91
derbo: 95
GT172I: 96
shanneba: 89
Hochspannung: 87
Kayger12: 95
RITmusic2k: 83 (sounds about right boss?)
Four out of 14 are below 90, the rest are above.
I feel that the DME such as MS43 vs. MS45.1 should be noted along with operating temp.
For example Spencer is running MS43 on Euro3 specs and Travis is running Stock MS43 both early models.
I know for a fact that MS45.1 was introduced to reduce emissions so the operating temp could be higher just for that fact in all DMEs produced after 09/2003.
I agree but are their numbers much different? Sorry don't know Travis' username (my bad).
For a valid comparison of values, though, we should all be reading the same way, through OBC. The DME that you speak of resides in the OBC?
Travis is Telijah.
The DME is the engine management system, and it varied throughout e46 production.
99-00 323/328 run Siemens MS42 DME
01-03 325/330 excl. ZHP run Siemens MS43 DME
03-06 325/330 incl. ZHP run Siemens MS45.1 DME.
I'm running Euro2 on MS42 so I'm interested to see what my OpTemp is.
Yep, 'bout right. I hate being an outlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli77
Just started thermostat replacement process. Hopefully have updated OBC temps in a few hours.
Usually 82 (M3)
My old ZHP ran at 95
Numbers are in Celsius once reached a plateau.
Oli77: 96
Dane: 95
Telijah: 88
edlvrt: 96
MrMaico: 96
Spencers: 90
Livesnearcostco: 91
derbo: 95
GT172I: 96
shanneba: 89
Hochspannung: 87
Kayger12: 95
RITmusic2k: 83
terraphantm: 95
I am still scratching my head about noting the DME version for each user. Can I just assume the version based on the date of the car ?
That's what I was thinking.....maybe just year and engine size/type?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli77
2004 3.0L M54 ZHP
Not everyone is going to know which DME they even have.
In general, with the E46:
- M52s use MS42
- US M54s before 03/2003 and Euro M54s use the MS43
- US M54s 03/2003 and later use the MS45.1 (therefore all ZHPs use the MS45.1)
- M56s (325 SULEVs) use the MS45.1 (regardless of build date).
OK I'll edit based on the entries we have...
Put in new T-stat, drove to recycling center to dispose of old coolant then drove to work in ambient temps of 65-68F. Now OBC displays 95C when moving (occasional 96C) and moves between 96-99C when stopped or in traffic. My old T-stat was either stuck open or opening too soon. Old T-stat was BMW brand with 85,000 miles on it. New T-stat is Wahler with 10 miles on it. In 4-6 weeks I should know if this improves my gas mileage. Edited table below.
Numbers are in Celsius once reached a plateau.
Oli77: 96
Dane: 95
Telijah: 88
edlvrt: 96
MrMaico: 96
Spencers: 90
LivesNearCostco old T-stat: 91 (77-91 while moving)
LivesNearCostco new T-stat: 95 (95-96 while moving)
derbo: 95
GT172I: 96
shanneba: 89
Hochspannung: 87
Kayger12: 95
RITmusic2k: 83
terraphantm: 95
Oli77: 96
Dane: 95
Telijah: 88
edlvrt: 96
MrMaico: 96
Spencers: 90
LivesNearCostco old T-stat: 91
LivesNearCostco new T-stat: 95
derbo: 95
GT172I: 96
shanneba: 89
Hochspannung: 87
Kayger12: 95
RITmusic2k: 83
terraphantm: 95
Hermes: 95
Win! Low reading = failed T-stat?Quote:
Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco
Probably - I'm pretty sure the only reason my M3 runs at 83 is because the T-stat is designed to open up at 82. In the non-Ms, I believe it opens up at 95. However, the DME can open the T-stat at lower temperatures if it wants to. I'm not sure what conditions makes it do so thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Oli77
Take a look at this, I think 89 is the number where that sucker opens:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanneba
Numbers are in Celsius, once plateau is reached.
Oli77 [2005 2.5L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
Danewilson77 [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Telijah [2001 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 88 (suspects open T-stat)
edlvrt [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
MrMaico [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1]: 96
Spencers [2001 2.5L M54 DME-MS43] : 90
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 91 (old T-stat)
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95 (new T-stat)
derbo [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
GT172I [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
shanneba [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 89 (when in 2003?)
Hochspannung [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 87 that's the outlier, unless these are the M car values.
Kayger12 [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
RITmusic2k [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 83 T-stat work ongoing
terraphantm [xxxx 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95 provide year on non-M
Hermes: [xxxx 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] = 95 provide year please
Please check if I got these right.
Here is a similar graph from data taken in July of 2010.
It looks like the thermostst starts to open at about 180F ~ 82C A little easier to see in this graph.
Red is coolant temp in engine
orange is oil temp
blue is coolant temp at the radiator outlet
green is engine speed
My 2003 is 02/2003 production with the MS43 DME.
Original thermostat.
Stewart pump, standard pullies.
Red Line water wetter / 50/50 BMW coolant.
Dinan Stage 2 software
Auto trans
Actually, I don't see what you mean, when the red line reaches ~150F, there is a slow down in the rate temperature rise (opened t-stat?), and then the rate is faster and then it plateaus at ~190.
I don't see anything pointing to 180F.
The blue line, radiator outlet temp, doesn't start to rise until the engine temp hits 180F indicating coolant is flowing through the radiator to the lower hose.
It could be opening a little before 180F, and it takes until 180F for the pump to circulate coolant equal to the volume in the radiator.
Mine was a 2003 ZHPQuote:
Originally Posted by Oli77
Numbers are in Celsius, once plateau is reached.
Oli77 [2005 2.5L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
Danewilson77 [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Telijah [2001 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 88 (suspects open T-stat)
edlvrt [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
MrMaico [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1]: 96
Spencers [2001 2.5L M54 DME-MS43] : 90
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 91 (old T-stat)
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95 (new T-stat)
derbo [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
GT172I [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
shanneba [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 89 (running water wetter and stewart pump)
Hochspannung [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 87 that's the outlier, unless these are the M car values.
Kayger12 [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
RITmusic2k [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 83 T-stat work ongoing
terraphantm [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Hermes: [xxxx 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] = 95 provide year please
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanneba
OK totally see that now. Thanks, clear as a bell. ~180 F
Numbers are in Celsius, once plateau is reached.
Oli77 [2005 2.5L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
Danewilson77 [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Telijah [2001 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 88 (suspects open T-stat)
edlvrt [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
MrMaico [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1]: 96
Spencers [2001 2.5L M54 DME-MS43] : 90
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 91 (old T-stat)
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95 (new T-stat)
derbo [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
GT172I [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
shanneba [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 89 (running water wetter and stewart pump)
Hochspannung [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 87 that's the outlier, unless these are the M car values.
Kayger12 [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
RITmusic2k [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 83 T-stat work ongoing
terraphantm [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Hermes: [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] = 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oli77
But that's an MS43 DME. The post 3/2003 MS45.1 (ZHP etc.) opens at 95 or 96 degrees.
During harder running, higher revs, the DME turns on the stat heater to open it at lower temps. I see my temp drop 10 to 15 degrees F every time I run through a few gears at revs above 5000 or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm
I believe the actual thermostat part number is the same for all the M54 engines. So they should have the exact same opening temp without the ECM influence since they are physically the same. The "opening" would be controlled by the actual thermostat same as any other normal thermostat.
There may be a difference in the programmed "additional" opening of the thermostat by the DME between the ECMs. This is controlled primarily by engine load and speed. I think of our thermostat as being two stage, one normal operation and the second stage with the "heating" from the application of +12 volts to the thermostat.
I might be interesting if someone has a thermostat, to do a video of it opening when +12 volts is applied.
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zin...1214_M0KFK.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by MrMaico
This characteristic map thermostat is controlled by the engine control unit dependent on a characteristic map.
This characteristic map is determined by the following factors:
Engine load
Engine speed
Vehicle speed
Intake temperature
Coolant temperature
I have my old one and I also have a battery sitting around. Might have to give that a try and see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by shanneba
Hmm. So, I went to my favorite parts supply website and I looked up the Wahler replacement for our cars. They returned part number 11 53 7 509 227 and there was a product note "79 degrees Celcius". I wonder if my car was accidentally fitted with an incorrect unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco
Costco, can you check on what the part number was for the Wahler unit you ordered?
Also, how bad of a job was it to do the swap? I'm thinking I'll be doing mine sooner than later...
T-Stat swap is simple.
It was indeed simple; was my 3rd swap. Have to remove fan but don't have to remove the belts, though I did to try to reduce how much spilled coolant got on them. Removed plastic undertray to drain the ET, and spilled some coolant from the lower radiator hose. I partially drained the ET and upper radiator hose was fairly empty but maybe I didn't drain it enough.
I got the Wahler from ECS Tuning almost a year ago, which today calls it part #11537509227, but that's the same part # for BMW, Behr, and Wahler T-stats. ECS catalog ES#:10944. AutoZone web site says their DuraLast t-stat for our cars opens at 206F. O'reilly sells a Murray at 206F or a Beck-Arnley at 97C. Pretty sure all the Rock Auto T-stats for the E46 non-M were for 97C, 80C for the M3.
Numbers are in Celsius, once plateau is reached.
Oli77 [2005 2.5L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
Danewilson77 [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Telijah [2001 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 88 (suspects open T-stat)
edlvrt [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
MrMaico [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1]: 96
Spencers [2001 2.5L M54 DME-MS43] : 90
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 91 (old T-stat)
LivesNearCostco [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95 (new T-stat)
derbo [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
GT172I [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 96
shanneba [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS43] : 89 (running water wetter and stewart pump)
Hochspannung [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 87 that's the outlier, unless these are the M car values.
Kayger12 [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
RITmusic2k [2004 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 83 T-stat work ongoing
terraphantm [2003 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] : 95
Hermes: [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] = 95
328ioc: [2005 3.0L M54 DME-MS45.1] = 95
Since changing out my thermostat, I think my gas mileage has improved between 0.5 and 1 mpg. I'm guessing it provides a bigger benefit in freeway driving when my temps formerly hovered in the 70's (Celsius).
Is there a hidden OBC function to show oil temps? I'd like to monitor those sometime.
All the codes are toward the end of the initial post. I didn't see oil temp.
http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showt...ve-maintenance
Hmmm... I could have sworn there is an oil temp sender plugged into the oil filter housing along with an oil pressure sender. Thought I read somewhere that some devices can read oil temp and pressure via the OBDII port.