The Random E46/ZHP Question Thread

[derbo]

I looked into the HP+ but heard horror stories of ears bleeding on the streets when braking.

I've had cool carbons before on my 1er and loved um so will probably go that route again. The stop techs are good but I think the CC will bite a touch more if I remember correctly.


GoingHAM mobile

I hated the cool carbons on the track. They had terrible pedal feel and became very spongy at the track. I was on ATE Type 200 and SS Lines at the time and I really hated the pedal feel. The brakes itself didn't keep up with the heat at Laguna Seca or Buttonwillow. I brake faded them within the first session and was pissed the whole day that the brakes could not even do a full session.

My personal preference is to stay away from Cool Carbons as a "dual purpose" pad.


HP+ squeal like no other. A high dust pad with mediocre track pad properties. IMO not a good track pad for our heavy cars.

[UdubBadger]

So you think Stoptech Street is a better option than Cool Carbon? Or just telling me to man the hell up and get 2 sets of pads lol?


GoingHAM mobile

[az3579]

HP+ squeal like no other. A high dust pad with mediocre track pad properties. IMO not a good track pad for our heavy cars.

It's interesting you say that about the HP+ because I have the opposite experience with them. Their performance has been superb for me on Lime Rock Park, Watkins Glen, and Calabogie Motorsports Park. I never once had brake fade and the bite has been very good both on and off track.

It goes without saying that I am not easy on my brakes. I've had pads cook not even halfway through the first session before...


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[UdubBadger]

What about the daily driveability of those BP?

[derbo]

So you think Stoptech Street is a better option than Cool Carbon? Or just telling me to man the hell up and get 2 sets of pads lol?


GoingHAM mobile

I'm saying you are looking for a Holy Grail pad that doesn't exist. If you want low noise, regular dust, high bite, high temps, its going to be next to impossible to find something in that range. 2 Pads is a good idea and I would recommend 2 pads from the same manufacturer so their compounds would have a better chance of bedding in properly on the same rotor. Otherwise sacrifice the noise, and the HP+ is probably good enough..

It's interesting you say that about the HP+ because I have the opposite experience with them. Their performance has been superb for me on Lime Rock Park, Watkins Glen, and Calabogie Motorsports Park. I never once had brake fade and the bite has been very good both on and off track.

It goes without saying that I am not easy on my brakes. I've had pads cook not even halfway through the first session before...


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BP,

did you run them on the 135i calipers or did you run them on the stock caliper? One thing I might think account for lower brake temperatures is that you have some tracks that have a lot of long straights that help with cooling those brakes. Laguna barely has a straight and Buttonwillow barely has one as well. Thunder hill is the closest thing to having a straight for us. I've tried them on an E46 M3 with stock calipers and a few s2000s and they constantly would overheat them at Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow mainly. I wish I had some temperature readings to see what the actual temperatures on the brake pads were.

Maximum Operating Temperature (MOT) on the HP+ seems to be around 900-1000F from what I can gather. In comparison my Carbotech XP12s MOT are 1850F+. My old setup, Carbotech XP10s (MOT 1475F) + SS lines + ATE Type 200 on stock rotors started to have brake fade at the 20-minute mark of the session during a spring/summer session. The HP+ was never enough for even 15minutes of running hard for me before I started to feel brake fade.

In my experience with HP+, they can do a dual purpose pad but they fall short of being a great track pad and is a really squealy street pad. Of course what you, (BP) and I are going for requires a dedicated track pad and it might not be what Seth is aiming for.

I am very curious at the temperature readings now how hot those brake pads actually get.

[UdubBadger]

Thoughts on EBC red pads?

[az3579]

What about the daily driveability of those BP?

They're perfectly DD'able... if you wear ear plugs. Functionally they're fine.

did you run them on the 135i calipers or did you run them on the stock caliper?

I have sets for both caliper pairs and have run both on the track. What I said applies to both.

One thing I might think account for lower brake temperatures is that you have some tracks that have a lot of long straights that help with cooling those brakes. Laguna barely has a straight and Buttonwillow barely has one as well. Thunder hill is the closest thing to having a straight for us. I've tried them on an E46 M3 with stock calipers and a few s2000s and they constantly would overheat them at Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow mainly. I wish I had some temperature readings to see what the actual temperatures on the brake pads were.

I don't think Laguna Seca is any more demanding per se, in my opinion. The Glen does have a couple of straights but I do brake pretty frequently in between the straights. When I run there, I run it in June, which is usually pretty hot. The same goes for Calabogie. The only track I don't run in the summer is Lime Rock.

I think the thing working against you is that you frequently run in 100+ degree days. Most of the time when I'm on track, it's 80-90, which plays a pretty big part in this...

Thoughts on EBC red pads?

EBC Reds are fantastic pads... only for the street.
They are long wearing, so they'll last a long time, and they barely create any dust at all. I can go 2-3 weeks without cleaning my wheels and you'd still see silver on my wheels.

EBC Yellowstuff is the pad that is their track/street combo pad. My buddy has these on his E36 M3 and they feel AMAZING for pedal feel. I haven't driven his car on the track with them but he says they are very good. I don't think he pushes his car as hard as me though, so I can't really provide some real comparisons on them, and I've only ever driven his car on the street with those pads.

[UdubBadger]

Hmmm maybe thats what I'll look at then. Thanks for the info.

[az3579]

Oh, keep in mind... the EBC Yellowstuff pads also squeal a bit.

[wsmeyer]

Lot's of great brake advice here but I'm afraid most people will miss it being located in this thread